News

Wails from Wales over ‘attack’ on Christianity

A DECISION to allow Welsh sixth-formers to opt-out of religious school assemblies was praised last night by evolutionary scientist Prof Richard Dawkins.

Prof Richard Dawkins

Prof Richard Dawkins

According to this report, the move by Assembly education minister Jane Hutt was welcomed by “the world’s best-known atheist” – but condemned by faith groups.

Currently schools must provide daily collective worship for all children, expect those withdrawn by their parents. The decision, which will affect over 16s, will bring Wales into line with England.

Prof Dawkins told the Western Mail he was in favour of the opt-out and said that, while it was important children grasped the social impact of religion, he believed non-religious assemblies served a purpose.

I am not against religious education in the sense of educating children about religion. It’s an important aspect of, not only our culture but all the cultures of the world.

But he added he was:

Passionately against anything that smacks of indoctrination and that would include telling children, ‘You belong to this religion or that religion’.

The Rev Edwin Counsell, education officer for the Church in Wales, said that trying to teach the importance of religion in today’s world without giving pupils an experience of worship was like trying to “teach biology without going into the laboratory”.

A further concern was that teenagers would come under peer pressure not to attend assemblies. He said:

This is a real issue. If you’re not careful you are branding collective worship as something you grow out of and in every sense it’s something you grow into.

Mr Counsell was disappointed last year when the Assembly voted against giving children the automatic right of free transport to a faith school.

Dr Geraint Tudur, of the Union of Welsh Independent churches added:

Over the centuries, Christianity has been the bedrock of Welsh identity and morality. This is a secular attack on that Christianity; an act of betrayal by the Assembly Government.

Stand by for a lengthy,  anguished  statement from Stephen “Birdshit” Green …

48 responses to “Wails from Wales over ‘attack’ on Christianity”

  1. Barry Duke says:

    I thought I should share this email from Steve, received as I was enjoying my first coffee and fag of the day:

    Congratulations are in order, I feel, as your website is the most hate-filled, cesspool that I have ever had the displeasure to stumble across. Your rants about the ‘bigotry’ of certain named individuals are pure hypocrisy. How do you get away with blatantly inciting religious hatred in this day and age?

  2. Bob says:

    This may seem strange to you but I actually agree with this ruling. 6th formers are at an age when they can easily make their own minds up about God and the Bible etc. I don’t believe in forcing people to worship, or listen to preaching, they should have a choice. In my work as a street evangelist I simply hold out Gospel leaflets to people and it’s up to them whether or not they take them. When I put posts on this site outlining Gospel truths it is up to people whether or not to choose to read them.

  3. TONY E says:

    Bob,

    If you are genuine, and I have my doubts, you say ‘I don’t believe in forcing people to worship, or listen to preaching, they should have a choice’

    Well what are you doing persistently emailing on a anti religious forum? Despite all your prayers I GUARANTEE you will not get 1 convert, as people here can think for themselves and not be led around by unsubstantiated bollocks!!

    I’m sure this twat has been put on earth to wind us up.

  4. Bob says:

    No, I am not simply trying to wind people up! I am outlining the truth, people don’t have to read my posts, much less to reply to them. You state that you “guarantee” that no one will get converted; don’t be so sure of that – God is sovereign and if He has earmarked you for conversion you will get converted, as Jesus put it “all that the Father gives me will come to me”, John 6 v 37.

  5. Angela K says:

    “Christianity has been the bedrock of Welsh identity and morality.” What utter tosh! Xtianinsanity is a relatively modern belief system; so what about the beliefs of the ancients – paganism etc? They were around a long time before the jack-boots of xtians came along and stamped it out. And he trots out the rather tedious nonsense about morality being the preserve xtians.

    Children should about religion – how stupid and nasty it really is.

  6. Bob says:

    Angela K states: “What about the beliefs of the ancients – paganism etc.” My answer is simple – Jesus is the only and exclusive way to Heaven. In John 14 v 6 He said “I am the way, the truth and the life, no-one comes to the Father but by me”.

  7. Angela K says:

    Sorry Typo! that should read “Children should be taught….”

  8. Tim Danaher says:

    Da ffwcin iawn y Senedd!!! (Fucking well done the Assembly).

    “In John 14 v 6 He said “I am the way, the truth and the life, no-one comes to the Father but by me”.

    Oh, right, so that must be true, then.

  9. Tim Danaher says:

    Aplogies for messing up the links…should be ““NASA dicovers Joshua’s missing day” bollocks….

    Barry… can we have some way of reviewing / editing posts?

  10. remigius says:

    re Bob.

    If you lot are gonna keep feeding this puppy will you at least put some paper down before he shits again!

  11. valdemar says:

    ‘If you’re not careful you are branding collective worship as something you grow out of and in every sense it’s something you grow into.’

    Interesting. This berk thinks that forcing children to listen to god-talk makes them more likely to become churchgoers. All the evidence – as Bob has I think deduced – is that the opposite is true. School assembly has advanced the cause of atheism in this country. So in theory, yes, scrap it as a civil rights issue. But in practice, I wonder if it might not be a kind of ‘vaccination’ against religion for the young?

  12. Mike says:

    teach biology without going into the laboratory

    Heh, nice subtle dig at the creationists he managed to work in, there.

  13. Bob says:

    Reply to Tim Danaher: The missing day is an interesting one as the Bible does show a day missing. I have another one for you to look up:

    http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0055/0055_01.asp

    You may find it helpful.

  14. Bob says:

    Hey chaps, I’ve just been reading the Daily Mail online and there is a story about a Southampton bus driver who won’t take a bus out with the atheist advert on the side!! What about that one then?

  15. nullifidian says:

    Wow, Bob’s moved from cherry-picking bible verses to referencing Jack Chick tracts now. Is he going to give us any other reasons to laugh at him?

  16. Angela K says:

    Quote Bob “Jesus is the only and exclusive way to Heaven.”
    You forgot about the muzzies & mo, you can’t all be correct, because none of you are!

    Bob, you should really to try and have a debate without quoting from your book of bollocks. THINK FOR YOURSELF!

  17. valdemar says:

    Bob, I read the bus driver thing on the BBC. It’s rather like the Muslim refusing to touch alcohol after taking a job in Tesco. ‘My religion means I get special privileges’.

    Does anyone recall an atheist refusing to drive a bus with a religious message on the side? Nope.

  18. Bob says:

    To be honest I’m not sure it’s right to refuse to drive a bus with an atheist message on the side as it could lead to all sorts of complications. EG what if a muzzie won’t drive a bus with a text stating that Jesus is God’s son? However, I admire the bloke for standing up for his beliefs. What intrigues me is that in an increasingly secular age the Christian faith is getting more media coverage than ever. It seems that every week one reads of a Christian believer or group making a stand. You will never silence the Christian Gospel – Jesus Christ is Lord.

  19. remigius says:

    Jesus is a Twat!

  20. Bob says:

    I notice you use the present tense and not the past tense. Does that mean you belive Jesus is alive, that He really did rise from the dead?

  21. remigius says:

    I was referring to your imaginary friend.

    Twat.

  22. remigius says:

    As indeed you were!

  23. Tim Danaher says:

    Bob, you credulous buffoon. Did you read the link?

    And yeah, posting Chick tracts on here…have you read Toby Young’s book?

    I’m with remigius on this one.

  24. Bob says:

    You haven’t answered my point about why, in an increasingly secular age, the Christian faith is getting so much coverage with press reports of Christians making a stand even though they may lose their jobs.

  25. remigius says:

    Bob I think it is more the case that rational freethinking people are finally making a stand against all this silliness. This is what is getting the coverage. The religiots are merely responding to it in the only way they know how. By crying foul.

  26. valdemar says:

    Bob, they may lose their jobs if (and I think this is perhaps a key point) they refuse to do them. Most people sign a contract to do their job, it’s a cunning management ploy to avoid paying us to spend all day on websites like this. Cunning bastards.

  27. Postman says:

    Huh. Leave it to the theists to label giving people a choice as an attack.

  28. Postman says:

    Er… who is this “Bob” fellow? Comedy relief or Poe?

  29. remigius says:

    No Bro he ain’t no Poe. I think we caught us a genuine dyed-in-the-wool-mindfucked-from-birth Jebus freak. I ain’t gonna let this puppy go.

  30. nullifidian says:

    You haven’t answered my point about why, in an increasingly secular age, the Christian faith is getting so much coverage with press reports of Christians making a stand even though they may lose their jobs.

    Because some christians (like Stephen ‘Birdshit’ Green and that Heather bloke) are a bunch of whiney asshats who go screaming “persecution” to the press at any opportunity when they don’t get their assumed privileges catered for. Does that answer your question?

  31. Broga says:

    Why are the Christian nutters getting so much coverage? Simple. They infest the BBC like a disease; the same BBC blocks contrary opinions on its smug Thought for the Day while that Anne Atkins creature appears regularly to spew her bile; any comment to papers such as The Times or particularly The Telegraph will have protests marshalled by the hundred from churchy types.

    What is encouraging is the growth of Humanist Funerals: deeper poetry and readings; wonderful music; and even vicars accepting that it is hypocritical and unnacceptical to force embarrassing crap of dead people who cannot protest. Very few, unless they are ill read, semi literate or worried about their “reputations” and haven’t got the guts to speak their minds continue to go along with this.

  32. Callisto says:

    yeah, and it’s about time you xian fascists had your so called rights to indoctrinate children with your poisonous puke fully and completely denied to you; it’s about time children were given the freedom of their minds they were born with, and you stupid self pitying bastards stopped screaming ‘secular attack’ merely because we believe children should be respected and not to have their minds invaded with religious, superstitious drivel that’s more than insulting, but psychologically damaging in so many ways. You’re all running scared cos the next generation is now free to think for themselves, and you’ll be out of a job. If you can call being a religious ‘teacher’ a job…
    Parasites.

  33. Bob says:

    Reply to broga: I do agree with your comments about humanist funerals. If a person has died as an unbleiver it is hypocritical for a vicar to say “he was a good man and now in Heaven etc”. One could say it is a bit like a non-Christian couple wanting a church weding when they don’t believe in Jesus.

    Reply to Callisto: the state cannot interfere with our right to teach our own children about Jesus. If the state tries to do that we will take legal action against the authorities. You mention the next generation; I am not concerned about people thinking for themselves, the Christian faith has stood up to 2,000 years of persecution and harassment and is still being preached and believed in today.

  34. nullifidian says:

    Bob,

    and your god does nothing, remains invisible, provides no evidence whatsoever for its existence to the remaining 70%-odd of the world’s population not already indoctrinated into your belief system, aborts about 30% of all pregnancies in the industrialised world (and far more in the third world), “invents” new viruses and diseases, fails to heal amputees, allows genocide, starvation, bigotry, selfishness, wars, murder, stupidity and otherwise allows the world to go to shit when it supposedly could do anything to solve this, and yet you still scrape and snivel on your knees thinking it better than the best sliced bread?

    Pathetic.

  35. Callisto says:

    Reply to Bob – bob, the state is not interfering with your ‘right’ to indoctrinate children; you are still perfectly free to do so within the privacy of your own homes and churches, bible ‘schools’, camps, xian groups and so on ad infinitum, you just can’t do it using state money in a state institution, or at least, you shouldn’t be allowed to do it with state money in a state institution.
    As for Xians being persecuted for 2000 years…obviously like most xians you are totally ignorant of history.

    Xianity became the accepted religion throughout Europe using a lot of force and coercion via the Roman state in the 4th century AD (why do you freaking think the seat of xian power was in ROME and not Judea? where your dead Jewish ‘god’ came from?) – ever since then, it is YOU who have been doing all the persecutions. For instance no Roman officer was allowed to command his troops UNLESS he was a xian, and paganism was outlawed with violence and death very early on. pagan priests were butchered at their altars by xians and their property stolen, so don’t freaking whine at me about xians being persecuted you ignorant pissy little freak.

    Xians have been perfectly free to not only build churches in every continent on earth, but to lie, murder, kill, rape, sodomize little boys and rape little girls; destroy, terrorise with inquisitions; persecutions that YOUR pig ignorant believers carried out; YOU who persecuted the Jews for killing your sad little dead Jewish guy, who was dead for a grand total of two days, carried out pogroms, burned people alive at the stake for daring to voice a different opinion, tortured in inquisition dungeons, lived off the state tax free, rape children and get away with it, and so, the list goes on and on and on.

    You’re nothing but a self-pitying little victim who can’t tell the difference between what’s real and what is fantasy…and a sick and stupid fantasy at that…please go back to your cave where you belong.

  36. Bob says:

    Reply to callisto: I agree that we should not get state assistance. As a Baptist I believe in the seperation of church and state. I also believe that over the centuries many people have called themselves Christians because they want to be part of the “estabishment” but they have never been truly converted. It is likely that Constantine was never truly converted but simply declared Christianity a state religion. Those declaring themselves Christians but without a heartfelt true conversion experience were the ones doing the atrocities. In fact many so called protestant refomers tormented and harrased Baptists (read “Trail of Blood”) True followers of Jesus never persecute anyone and pray for their persecutors.

  37. Naumadd says:

    Religion is necessarily something one invents for oneself, otherwise it is someone elses religion into which you are being coerced.

    Coerced religion isn’t religion at all – it is dictatorship. A religion, being only one’s personal experiences, thinking, feelings, beliefs, values and goals put into practice, must grow from you organically in that it is every bit as part of you as is the color of your eyes or blood in your veins, else it of no use. But, of course, I am speaking more of religion in general and not necessarily of the superstitious brands of such so widespread in human cultures.

    I, like Professor Dawkins, believe that an education into the history and workings of world religions is as essential a part of one’s cultural education as is an education in its source – world philosophies. Nevertheless, information and understanding regarding the topic of religion ought not become indoctrination into this religion or that one. As I said, a religion that does not emerge organically from one’s own experiences, thoughts, feelings, beliefs, values and goals isn’t a religion at all – it is merely roleplaying and usually at the behest of others to do so. If you are not consciously and irrevocably a religion of one, then your religion is that of accepting whatever others tell you to be true – especially about yourself.

    As for the comments of Rev. Edwin Counsell, he stresses that an education regarding world religions must necessarily include the “experience of worship” but, I have to ask, in light of the many world religions it is necessary to teach to keep an educational balance, whose “experience of worship” do you suggest – as if I don’t already know.

    It is also true, as Rev. Counsell suggests, that collective worship is something one grows into in that we are all born “atheists” and non-believers in every other superstition-based set of beliefs, however, I contend it is also true that collective worship, as the game of minds struggling to understand themselves, each other and nature at large, is something one ought to then grow out of to reach a level of authentic maturity and genuinely earn the title of “adult”. Superstition is a crutch, I will grant you, that may cannot overcome as are the practices so often associated with it, however, it is a crutch all the same that individuals ought, in the least, attempt at every opportunity to develop beyond.

    To permanently stop at a rest area on the long road to authentic maturity isn’t what I would call a life adequately lived.

  38. nullifidian says:

    I guess Bob’s never heard of the no true Scotsman fallacy.

  39. Bob says:

    Is this Anthony Flew the once militant atheist who now believes there is a God?

  40. Barry Duke says:

    Bob, your lot are more than welcome to Prof Flew, who flew the atheist coop many years ago when he found, to his intense irritation, that nobody would support his pro-apartheid views, aired at a National Secular Society AGM. I clashed with him there when he accused me of being a communist for supporting the African National Congress in its struggle against the CHRISTIAN apartheid regime. After making a complete horse’s arse of himself, he stormed out of the meeting, never to return. Good bloody riddance, I say!

  41. Bob says:

    The apartheid government were not true Christians. Jesus said “by their fruits you know them”. True Christians are known by the way they live their lives, not just by the words they say.

  42. Barry Duke says:

    Typical! Whenever Christians behave in a particularly vile manner, people like you, Bob, come up with the tedious stock response “Oh but they we’re not TRUE Christians”.

    Bullshit! When the architects of apartheid weren’t devising new and crueller ways to treat South Africa’s non-white population (always using the Bible to justify their actions, pretty much as Hitler, another devout God-believer did), they were packing out their churches and praying, as you would expect “true” believers to do. Without the fucking Bible, Bob, apartheid would never have been spawned, and the Holocaust most likely would never have occurred.

    “By their fruits you know them”. Absolutely spot on, Bob. The “fruits” produced by religious fruitcakes like yourself are rotten to their core. This blog exists, in part, to highlight the horrendous behaviour of “true” believers, whatever their religion, and to warn anyone thinking of flirting with religion of the deep dangers that lurk within hate manuals like the Bible and the Koran.

    Take note too Bob that any future message you post quoting from the Bible will be removed. Can you meet the challenge of engaging in RATIONAL discourse without reference to your collection of primitive scribblings? Personally, I doubt it because virtually every infantile word you write betrays a mind utterly polluted by superstition, and quite incapable of any form of original thought.

  43. Bob says:

    Oh dear, you really are getting worked up aren’t you? If there really is no God then why are you getting so cross about it? It is true that “religious” people have misused the Bible to carry out bad deeds, but they will have to give account to God for that. One of the bad effects of having a state religion is that people claim to be Christians, not because they are true believers at heart, but because they want to fit in with the establishment. This is one reason why I hold strongly to a seperation between church and state. True Christians do not need the patronage of the state because we believe that Jesus will build His church and nothing will stop every elect person from coming to repentance and faith in Christ. Why do you want to delet Bible quotes? Are you afraid of the Bible? After all, if it is only a book what do have to be afraid of?

  44. Barry Duke says:

    “Why do you want to delete Bible quotes? Are you afraid of the Bible? After all, if it is only a book what do have to be afraid of?”

    Oh dear, do I have to spell this out as if I was speaking to a particularly thick eight-year-old?

    By you own admission, the Bible can inspire people to do bad things – and ever since the disease of Christianity first infected the brains of stupid people, they have committed atrocities in the name of God in spadefuls. Remember the Crusades, the Inquisition, the burning of heretics and witches, to mention but a few?

    The Bible, like Hitler’s Mein Kampf IS just a book, true, but a book crammed with hatred, contradictions, illogicalities, and absurdities. I would not dream of allowing anyone to post extracts from Mein Kampf or the Protocols of Zion on this site, so why should I allow quotes from an even more hate-filled and intolerant tome to pollute this blog?

    I am willing to bet that atheists have a far better knowledge of the Bible than most believers. That, Bob, is why they ARE atheists.

  45. nullifidian says:

    If there really is no God then why are you getting so cross about it?

    Because people like you act as if it were true. If you and your ilk didn’t go around being bigots and judgemental pricks, then I wouldn’t give a shit what fairy tales you indulged in. However, because people like you do go around being bigots and judgemental pricks, I concern myself.

    It is true that “religious” people have misused the Bible to carry out bad deeds, but they will have to give account to God for that.

    “Religious” in scare quotes? I suppose that’s just another way of whining that they “weren’t true christians(tm).

    Anyway, before that (if that were to ever happen) they’ll have to deal with society. You christians don’t live in a social vacuum (although sometimes I wish it were true).

  46. nullifidian says:

    Bob squeaked:

    Is this Anthony Flew the once militant atheist who now believes there is a God?

    No, that’ll be the Anthony Flew — the once outspoken atheist — who has succumbed to the idea of an ‘intelligent first cause’, but certainly not the christian god. Not surprising, really, when you consider that he’s losing his marbles and had christian “intelligent design” (AKA creationist) evangelists insinuating themselves into his life in the past few years, taking advantage of an increasingly senile old man.

    It’s rather sickening for people like you to try to wave him in our faces like a standard for your god-club. I hope you’re proud of yourself. Previously I was convinced that you were a wingnut. Now I think you’re an immoral wingnut.

  47. Bob says:

    I will not be intimidated by abuse, after all Jesus said that His followers would be persecuted and hated.