JEREMY Vine is a Radio 2 host. He is also a Christian, which is fine by us. No-one’s perfect.
But Vine is not content merely to embrace to his delusion of choice. He apparently wants to snare others in it, but feels constrained by an atmosphere of hostility.
Jeremy Vine. Photo: Martin Pope.
In a piece the Telegraph yesterday, Vine was quoted as saying that Christians are becoming social pariahs in Britain, and that he is forced to separate his personal beliefs from his role as a presenter.
He said that he feels unable to talk about his faith on his show because he fears how people would react, and argues that society has become increasingly intolerant of the freedom to express religious views.
You can’t express views that were common currency 30 or 40 years ago. Arguably, the parameters of what you might call ‘right thinking’ are probably closing. Sadly, along with that has come the fact that it’s almost socially unacceptable to say you believe in God.
His comments follow the claim from Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O’Connor, the head of the Catholic Church in England and Wales, that Britain is an “unfriendly” place for religious people to live.
Vine, 43, is a practising Anglican, but says he would be compromised by being more open about his faith on air.
Just blurting it out would be destructive. Just because something’s true doesn’t mean you can say it. That’s quite an important principle. Once I put my cards on the table about my faith in discussions, it becomes problematic.
In an interview with Reform, a magazine published by the United Reformed Church, Mr Vine says that he is forced to separate his personal beliefs from his role as a presenter.
Awwww!
One of the things that I think, which may sound bizarre, is that Christ is who he said he was. I don’t think I’d put that out on my show; I suppose there’s a bit of a firewall between thinking that and doing the job I do.
Last year, Mark Thompson, the director-general of the BBC and a practising Roman Catholic, suggested that Islam should be treated more sensitively by the BBC than Christianity.
However, he also said that accusations that the corporation was anti-God were:
Not just too sweeping; they are not even directionally true.
Thompson is, of course, correct. The BBC is awash with religious bilge.
Ed Stourton, one of Mr Vine’s colleagues at the BBC, said that he felt that the biggest problem for people of faith is being sidelined.
Clearly we live in a secular society and that has increased, but I don’t get a sense of being persecuted. There’s a problem for people who are active in their faith in feeling that the society around them ignores them.
The Today presenter said that he wouldn’t allow his faith to affect his job as he has a duty to reflect the views of his audience.
He added:
I’m perfectly happy to say I’m a Roman Catholic and that doesn’t mean I’m a nutter.
Tony Blair revealed in 2007 that he had been unable to be open about his faith when Prime Minister for fear that people would label him a “nutter”.
It’s difficult if you talk about religious faith in our political system. If you are in the American political system or others then you can talk about religious faith and people say ‘Yes, that’s fair enough,’ and it is something they respond to quite naturally. You talk about it in our system and, frankly, people do think you’re a nutter.
That, Mr Blair, is because people like you ARE nutters!
The Freethinker was founded in 1881 by GW Foote, an outspoken critic of religion. After the publication of 
January 19th, 2009 at 12:54 pm
Here is a further proof that Christians in this country are persecuted. The fact that you are now deleting some of my posts is more evidence of a continuing campaign of persecution and harrasment against Christians.
January 19th, 2009 at 1:02 pm
Bob, the only posts that are being deleted are those which fail to address issues raised on this blog in an intelligent manner, or answer questions which are put directly to you. Now stop behaving like a petulant child!
January 19th, 2009 at 1:12 pm
If you have ever listened to any of Mr Vine’s radio programmes, it is obvious even to the most naïve of people, just how biased he is in favour of religion. He is, of course, sticking to the traditional bias of the Bible Broadcasting Corporation and in good company. Personally, I find Mr Vine a patronising prat.
January 19th, 2009 at 1:22 pm
Jeremy Vine playing the victim card. Poor old persecuted christians. Citing the American model, where you HAVE to broadcast your religious beliefs or get shunned is a little different from just having a friendly chat about the subject, after all, to announce that you are an atheist is political suicide in the USA. Some of his observations on the (lying) BBC’s attitude to religion are enlightening and re-affirm my belief in their biased agenda. I enjoy a good supernatural tale, but I always remember that it is just a story to entertain. I thought JV was more enlightened that to believe in the JC nonsense.
January 19th, 2009 at 2:09 pm
Vine says “You can’t express views that were common currency 30 or 40 years ago”.
30 or 40 years ago black people were openly called wog, coon and nigger, is this the kind of ‘common currency’ he wants back? Women were still very much 2nd class citizens, maybe he wants that back too? Disabled people were openly mocked and called spastics, maybe he thinks thats cool because they’ve done something wrong in a previous life a-la Glenn Hoddle?
The only thing that seems to have changed with regard to christianity is that athiests/agnostics/freethinkers etc have had enough of being told we cannot do or say things because religion disapproves.
January 19th, 2009 at 2:15 pm
There was a program on Channel 4 last night about the persecution of Christians in Roman times. It really got me thinking.
We need some lions.
January 19th, 2009 at 2:27 pm
What an encouraging report! We must be winning!
And why on earth shouldn’t we ignore them if we don’t share their delusions?
January 19th, 2009 at 3:47 pm
Remigius, I think your idea should form the basis of a t-shirt, button-badge and bus poster slogan: “So many Christians, so few lions!”
January 19th, 2009 at 5:05 pm
So the christians are going down the ‘victim’ route? That makes a change!
For some reason they feel they just have to impose their invisible buddy on everyone, but claim foul, when those in the real world tell them to piss off.
Now, does that sound like anyone we know?
January 19th, 2009 at 5:46 pm
I glanced at the newspaper item but didn’t bother to read it. My special atheist psychic powers told me it would the usual bleatfest from a god-botherer. What they people resent is that they don’t get automatic respect any more. We’ve wised up to the fact that Christians aren’t better than the rest of us, and in some respects a lot of them are morally deficient. They’ll just have to live with it.
January 19th, 2009 at 6:11 pm
Quote Barry Duke: Remigius, I think your idea should form the basis of a t-shirt, button-badge and bus poster slogan: “So many Christians, so few lions!â€
I have a ‘bumper sticker’ with exactly that printed on it – came from the USA. I also have a button badge that says ” Religious belief is a mental ilness”
January 19th, 2009 at 6:34 pm
reply to Barry Duke: you falsely accuse me of behaving like a petulant child but I won’t let you provoke me. You delete my posts because you can’t cope with your atheism being challenged.
Reply to Angela K: Yes the BBC are biased – against the Christian faith.
January 19th, 2009 at 6:48 pm
Bob,
Do you have voices in your head?
January 19th, 2009 at 7:09 pm
No
January 19th, 2009 at 8:25 pm
Just been thinking about Tony Hart’s plasticine creation – Morph. He lived in a box and spoke gibberish.
Hi Bob.
January 19th, 2009 at 9:31 pm
I like your sense of humour remmy. Perhaps I should post under the name of morph, what d’ya reckon?
January 19th, 2009 at 9:35 pm
Couldn’t give a shit!
January 19th, 2009 at 10:22 pm
Fuck off bob you fucking massive fucking dickheaded cunt.
Go out and get an education about the realities of the planet you live on and the history of mankind, as your snivelling platitudes are wearing my patience thin, you utter prick.
Normally I never swear, but you really do warrant some profanity.
Here’s a wonderfully phrased argument against belligerent “believers”:
“All you guys and gals who are so feverishly eager to trash the scientific method – although your comments usually show very plainly that you don’t understand the first thing about it – I just want to say, fine with me, spout as much nonsense as you please. It’s a free country. I just wish you’d have the balls to be consistent. I’m afraid I can’t admire a person who, without any kind of qualm, drives a car, takes a hot shower, works by electric light, enjoys the use of a TV, laptop, DVD player, game console, etc etc, consults a doctor when sick, accepts antibiotics, surgery, or a blood transfusion when really ill, gets immunized against smallpox, cholera, typhoid etc etc, uses any product of the chemical industry, eats bread made with modern strains of wheat, etc etc – YET has the bad grace to open their flapping, brainless mouth and dump all over the methods of analysis and experiment which produced ALL of these things. What does this say about your character? Not much. You want to be anti-science? Then go and live in a cave, wash in cold water, eat only what you can find or kill, wear some stinking skin, and die of some disease before 40. I might respect you then.”
January 19th, 2009 at 10:51 pm
I concur. And Bob, if you are serious about changing your name then can I suggest Hebetudinous Dogknot. It sums you up perfectly.
I will even pay for the deed poll.
January 20th, 2009 at 1:21 am
Shargrave that response was fantastic. That argument is spot on. Will have to remember that one.
Bob is a prick but for some reason these cretins actually believe that the more they annoy people and get a bit of grief in their direction the more their imaginary friend will stroke them like a little puppy dog when they get to their heaven (our grave!). Bob won’t go away for a while, maybe not even until his care workers come and lock him back up so maybe we should just ignore him like we do his imaginary mate.
January 20th, 2009 at 2:39 am
If by “be open about his faith” Vine means “insert religion/God into my radio show every chance I get” then he is a nutter and it’s right that people get perturbed by it. When someone is hired to do a particular job and they’re continuously attempting to sidetrack things to their personal agenda they shouldn’t be surprised when others get turned off. If he wants to talk about god and religion 24/7 he should become a priest or religious talk-show host. Otherwise he needs to lay off the god-talk when on the job.
It’s not “persecution” to ask people to do their actual job rather than proselytize.
January 20th, 2009 at 9:21 am
I rejoice when I receive abuse because my reward is greater in Heaven; however, I grieve over your souls because you are heading for Hell unless you repent. If this is deleted that is further proof that you don’t believe in free speech.
January 20th, 2009 at 9:59 am
Bob,
Later in your life, just at the point when you die, and the brief realisation dawns that you have been deluded and could have actually enjoyed life, I would pay to see your face.
My idea of hell? To be locked in a room for all eternity with sanctimonious gits like yourself.
January 20th, 2009 at 11:45 am
So you rejoice when you receive abuse but you don’t think your deluded? Wow!! The twisted logic you display is some of the most ridiculous, shit headed drivel its ever been my misfortune to read you worthless piece of crap!
There, you must be absolutely delighted now. Im only too glad to help.
January 20th, 2009 at 12:11 pm
Thank you for increasing my reward in Heaven.
January 20th, 2009 at 12:16 pm
Bob, I have always regarded Christianity as a nasty little death cult. Thank you so much for confirming this. Unfortunately, you will not be able to celebrate all the abuse heaped on you here in heaven. You will have to share it with the worms when you finally cease to exist.
January 20th, 2009 at 1:00 pm
My body may well be eaten by worms after my decease, but my soul will live on in Heaven. I do hope that you, too, will go to Heaven – it is not too late to repent of your unbelief and accept Jesus as your Lord and personal Saviour.
January 20th, 2009 at 1:59 pm
If the price of embracing Christianity means pending a grim eternity in the company of sour brain-dead imbeciles like you, Bob, then the devil’s domain will be my choice.
After all, that’s where all my friends and family will be, as well some other tip-top brains and top-class show biz folk like George Melly, John Mortimer, Richard Dawkins … oh I could go on forever.
But what’s the point. Hell is no more a reality than heaven, and when you and I die all there will be is merciful oblivion.
January 20th, 2009 at 3:32 pm
Poor Mr. Vine…now he’s seeing what atheists have had to live with for centuries.
I find it hilarious that Christians claim a 90%-95% majority, yet they’re still being ‘persecuted.’
January 20th, 2009 at 5:30 pm
There is not a 90% majority of Christians; true Christians who believe with their hearts and not just have an outward form are actually a small minority in this country and we are experiencing an increasing amount of perseuction.
January 20th, 2009 at 5:39 pm
Is Bob a parody? Maybe a contributor to the onion? He’s surely not serious.
January 20th, 2009 at 5:45 pm
‘We are experiencing an increasing amount of perseuction (sic)’
So what can non-religious Fred Bloggs do in the UK that you can’t? Having disproportionate influence stripped away in favour of equality that you oppose is not ‘persecution’.
January 20th, 2009 at 6:29 pm
Having the Police knock on the door and spend 90 minutes grilling and threatening an elderly couple for expressing disapproval of gay behaviour (as happened in Lancashire a couple of years ago) is persecution. Being dismissed from a job because you won’t lie for your employer (as happended to me – twice) is persecution. I could give other examples – Britain in 2009 is an unfriendly place to believe, and live out daily, the Christian faith.
January 20th, 2009 at 6:29 pm
Alan C: what is the “onion”?
January 20th, 2009 at 6:35 pm
Trawling through the debate on here, my suspitions about religious belief being something akin to mental illness are pretty much confirmed. There simply is no opportunity for rational, intellectual debate with people whose sole response to every point is ‘well my favourite book says bla bla bla so it must be true’. I’ve frankly had more intelligent debate with my cat Norman than with these delusionists. I suspect that thorough brainwashing during childhood might explain to some extent the pitiful state of mind of the religious. I can’t think of any other possible explanation of why people could end up in such a total state of fuckwittedness. I dunno about you lot but I feel a little bit sorry for them in a way- what a way to waste your life.
January 20th, 2009 at 6:57 pm
I’m surprised Bob doesn’t just forgive us all if he’s such a devoted Christian… seems so obvious… However, it sound’s like he came here to preach at us! How very holy and Christian of him… Good to see you living up to your Christian principles Bob….
Matthew 6:5: And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men.
Even the Bible calls you a hypocrite Bob… God is persecuting you it would seem? Now shut the hell up.
January 20th, 2009 at 8:14 pm
I freely forgive those who have persecuted me. I mention examples of persecution to answer Stuart W’s post.
DannyJ: Mr Duke has made it clear in another section that Bible quotes are forbidden, such posts, he says, will be deleted – so much for free speech.
January 20th, 2009 at 8:34 pm
Sorry Mr Duke, If I breached the rules… Bob, my point stands in any case.
January 20th, 2009 at 8:52 pm
Bob. I think the prohibition only applies to your proselytising. I am a very strong advocate of free speech…so shut the fuck up!
And if you go on any more about being persecuted I’ll set Clarence on you.
January 20th, 2009 at 9:00 pm
Though no doubt you will defend yourself with Gladly the cross-eyed bear.
…sorry
January 20th, 2009 at 9:18 pm
You contradict yourself remmy. You said that you believe in free speech and then said I should shut up! If I shut up I won’t have free speech!
January 20th, 2009 at 9:24 pm
Bob, the Lancashire couple were themselves harassing their council, insisting that they remove the ‘sinful’ information about civil partnerships – an aspect played down in the Daily Mail spin that followed which preferred to focus on the Roberts’ afterthought suggestion that Christian literature be put on display. I have always had the impression that the police just wanted a quiet word before it turned more serious after Joe aggressively asked a young man to reveal his sexuality during one phone call. Funny how quickly the Roberts become crusaders for freedom of speech when their plan to shut others up backfires!
May I also remind you that the couple were apologized to and compensated to the tune of ten grand. Such abominable persecution!
I can’t see that the other example you give me counts for much either, it is so vague.
January 20th, 2009 at 9:41 pm
Bob. Judging by the way that you have brushed aside every insult directed at you I did consider you to be thick skinned.
I now realise I was only half right!
January 20th, 2009 at 10:10 pm
Remmy, I am thick skinned but if people are sacked for living the Christian life as I was then it is not a minor matter.
Stuart W: yes the couple were compensated. The Christian Institute – a champion of Christian liberty – put up the legal representative and prepared papers against the Police and Council for harassment. Both backed down when they realised they would lose, and Christian free speech won the day.
January 20th, 2009 at 10:41 pm
!
January 20th, 2009 at 10:50 pm
‘Christian free speech won the day’.
Yes, they didn’t do badly considering that it was those two Christians having no respect for free speech that began the whole chain of events…
January 21st, 2009 at 8:50 am
Gloworm: Re Norman. Have you seen this? It’s much more entertaining than the drivel put out by Bob.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3U0udLH974
January 21st, 2009 at 10:17 am
Mr Duke: I note you keep deleting my posts, can’t you cope with them?
January 21st, 2009 at 10:27 am
Bob, I am deleting all of your posts that are stupid, repetitive, off-message and refer to the gospels. Which is most of them. This is not a place for your mindless evangelising. There are enough fundie websites out there who will gladly indulge your masturbatory biblical fantasies. Just don’t post them here.
January 21st, 2009 at 12:17 pm
Bob. You are beginning to sound like some retarded 1960′s game show host. “You can repent, face hellfire, or open box number 3″
…and you’ve won tonight’s star prize. A bible and a box of tummy-wipes.
January 21st, 2009 at 1:02 pm
Well Bob, I invited you to detail the terrible persecution that Christians suffer in the UK and the best you could come up with was a case from about five years ago (that the Christians ended up winning) and some cryptic muttering about being dismissed for ‘refusing to lie’. Rather rich of you to accuse another of not being able to cope with being questioned.
January 21st, 2009 at 2:10 pm
I could give you more case histories but Mr Duke (who cannot cope with free speech that disgarees with him) is likely to delete my post.
February 9th, 2009 at 9:01 pm
I am a christian and while reading your comments, I thought of a scripture in the Holy Bible. The scripture is Romans 1:18-32. But before I give you this scripture I will give you this one out of the bible. It is 2 timothy 3:16-17 “All scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
This scripture says that every word you read in the Bible is God breathed. That God used man to write these words in the Bible. In the old testament God spoke to man audibly and by angels. God also talked to men in dreams. In the new testament Jesus Christ, whom is God’s son, died on the cross for the whole world’s sin. John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,[a] that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.” After Jesus Christ rose from the grave he sent out the Holy Spirit to indwell in his followers(christians) and the Holy Spirit spoke to the apostles(the men who were with Jesus Christ while he wasa here in this world), and reminded them of what Jesus told them about how to live and what to do. And these men were used to write the new testament. John was used to write revelations. He was one of the apostles and God gave him dreams which told him what to write in revelatios.
Now for the other scripture I thought of while reading your comments.
It is Romans 1:18-32
“The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
21For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.
24Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
28Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. 29They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.”
The sunset, trees, water, ground, and everything you see was made by God. And that since everyone knows there is a God, they neither glorified him nor gave thanks to him. That God gives these people up to their own sinful pleasures to do what they ought not to do. That is what these verses are talking about and what they mean. See, I have heard that it takes more faith to be an atheist then to be a christian. Do you know that if the sun was set differently than where it is, that we wouldn’t be here today. The stars are put into place exactly where God wants them to be. How could the sun and stars form by just showing up and without someone knowing exactly how to set them up? How can something form from nothing? Do you ever see something grow from nothing? How are birds formed? How does someone make a computer and build it? Does it just all of a sudden show up out of nowhere? no way. So, the same goes for our galaxy and us. There had to be someone that made us. I know it is hard for us humans to understand everything but we do know that everything had to be made by someone. And who is this someone? It is God. And you are made in God’s image.
Genesis 1
“In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2 Now the earth was [a] formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and He separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.
6 And God said, “Let there be an expanse between the waters to separate water from water.” 7 So God made the expanse and separated the water under the expanse from the water above it. And it was so. 8 God called the expanse “sky.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.
9 And God said, “Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear.” And it was so. 10 God called the dry ground “land,” and the gathered waters he called “seas.” And God saw that it was good.
11 Then God said, “Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds.” And it was so. 12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.
14 And God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark seasons and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth.” And it was so. 16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.
20 And God said, “Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the expanse of the sky.” 21 So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living and moving thing with which the water teems, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 God blessed them and said, “Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth.” 23 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fifth day.
24 And God said, “Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: livestock, creatures that move along the ground, and wild animals, each according to its kind.” And it was so. 25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.
26 Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, [b] and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”
27 So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them.
28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”
29 Then God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air and all the creatures that move on the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food.” And it was so.
31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.”
Genesis 2:1-3
“Thus the heavens and the earth were completed in all their vast array.
2 By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested [a] from all his work. 3 And God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.”
I hope this helps everyone.
February 9th, 2009 at 9:27 pm
No, it does not, Chad. Christianity, like Judaism and Islam and countless religions that existed before, are simply human constructs. No divine revelation is involved, because no divine revelation exists, and I defy you to prove otherwise. In your post, you have unwittingly wandered into the area of circular argument. “God exists” “How do you know?” “Because it says so in the Bible.” “Who wrote the Bible?” God did, through certain chosen individuals”.
A circular argument is no argument at all, and is rightly dismissed as intellectual dishonesty by rational thinkers, which this site is aimed at.
Your entire post is a cut-n-paste exercise entirely bereft of any critical thinking on your own part, and is therefore worthless.
Nice try though!