Thanks for that link. Did you look at any of the signatures? This one was number 8 on the list. This moron signs a petition against something they believe in just to say they don’t agree with the petition.

“eveloution is unproven and just a theory, must teach all alternatives”

All things considered, I think this proves evolution and shows that it’s not finished yet. Don’t ya just love these people? They’re a great source of entertaynmunt, enturtaenmont, entretaynemend, enturtaignment SHIT! laughs

http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/Sciencenotfaith/ (Expires 31 Mar 2009)

Sadly there are only 173 signatures (174 after mine has registered)

I couldn’t agree more. As you say, the opting in plan is just a first step. It will not be easy to get a result with this as religions are determined to keep their grip on education because they know that if they can’t get to our children when they are very young to brainwash them, it won’t be long before they are history.

Despite what we all would wish to happen, it has to be carried out in steps I think. As you pointed out, if the majority of people were not opting their children into religious lessons, it would be clear that religious lessons were not needed and schools could get on with the job of educating our children with facts. Religion could then be confined to places of worship and the homes of those who want religion in their lives.

Religious lessons in school could be left until secondary school where the subject could be approached from a historical and factual viewpoint. This would be enough to put anyone off for life!

This is clearly a problem though for the opting in plan. I’m sure religious leaders and politicians know this and would be dead against the opting in plan for this reason. The only good thing about all this and stories like the one about them renewing efforts to get at patients in hospitals, is that it shows that they are running scared. Unfortunately, with the influence they have on decision making, it’s not easy to get an even playing field. But then when was religion ever about being fair and doing the right thing

Changing it from opting out to opting in sounds like a good place to start.
Personally, I think that schools should not have religious education at all. Rather they should give civics classes that are totally secular. That way children of all faiths and none could learn how to relate to each without having to be separated and excluded.

Religion can be talked about within history lessons. If people want to give their children religious instruction they could make their own arrangements. The equivalent of Sunday school(or whatever Sabbath applies).

The Humanist proposal is probably the most realistic. Then, in the future, if there are so many people opting out that it becomes a waste of time and resources, they might look to a more secular alternative.

Thanks for that info. I’ll look for it but it you have a link you can post here that would be fantastic. If you’ve only dreamt it though, can you go back to that dream and dream that I also signed it please?

I agree about the superiority thing, which is taken to extremes by islam of course.

One of the things I think would be good to concentrate on (and I know my local humanist group are big on this too) is the idea of changing the religious education choice from one of opting out to one of opting in. I think far less parents would opt their children in than would choose to opt them out, if you see what I mean.

I have spoken to parents who say “we’re not interested in religion so we’ll just let our kids make up their own mind when they get older”. This is fine, and many many people feel that way. The trouble is, they seem to think that having them participate in religious education is part of that. Ok, some people take the view that you should let them see both sides. But exposing them to religion from when they start school is just not fair on the children.

It’s not like they are introduced to it in an open minded manner. As you well know, they are told that it is a FACT that god exists not just that it’s an option if you want to go down that route. In any case, they are too young to be thinking about these things and for many of them, too young to be able to make a reasoned judgement for themselves. Especialy when they are faced with grown ups who they are learning from every day and who have a particular goal in mind. Namely, brainwashing these poor children into belief in god and a life of misery.

Here are a couple of quotes from the book my son would have been learning from this year had I not opted him out. This is part of the notes to the teacher preceding the actual lesson and is right at the start of the book:

Some characteristics of Five and Six year olds.

“The concept “I am special” rests easy with a young child. Children, particularly young children, are far more open than adults to being excited by their own unique gifts and talents. They are continuously discovering more about themselves and about their world. Everything is new and exciting. They are open and spontaneous, as yet unfettered by the conventions of adulthood, and can be easily motivated to celebrate and give thanks.”

And:

It goes on to say:

“At this stage, children imitate adult behaviour almost unconsciously. They identify with significant adults to the extent that they absorb their attitudes even if they don’t fully understand them.”

I think that makes their intentions very clear!

I don’t actually remember any discussion of evolution at school either, but the biology lessons covered areas which exposed us to the realities of the link between all other species and our own. I thought it was obvious anyway. At the same time, I don’t remember being taught that evolution was bad. I just don’t think it came up. In fact, I have no recollection of religious ‘education’ in secondary school at all. Strange. I never thought about that until now. We must have had it but I just don’t remember it.

Primary school was worse. It’s a crime and nothing short of child abuse how they are determined to get children as young as they can and expose them to ideas about god to make sure that belief in god is second nature. Especially if they use the threat of hell. I’ve seen it with my own son’s religious education books (he is opted out now and doesn’t have to listen to that crap any more) and I was stunned at how deliberate a tactic this actially is. I mentioned this to the head teacher and was shocked by her attitude too.

These people have no conscience. I am actually thinking about starting up a ‘parents against religion in education’ type group to campaign for indoctrination free education. It would be a bit like banging my head against a brick wall for now I admit, but everything has to start somewhere and I think education is the key to overcoming the influence religion has in our societies. We need more children to grow up free of this garbage so that in future, there will be far less (eventualy none I hope) religiously minded politicans scuppering the chances of a genuine separation of religion and state.

I’ve never done anything like this before so any advice or help would be appreciated. I intend to approach my local humanist group to ask for some advice actually. I have had dealings with them in the past and they were very helpful in giving me the information I needed to opt my son out of religious observation and education. They have a few ex teachers and ex education authority people in their membership and are doing great work in campaigning for this themselves.

I think that having a group for parents with children at school right now, could be of use though.