Comments on: Churches gloomy as atheists rush to debaptise themselves

By: Yewtree

Yewtree — Wed, 20 May 2009 11:53:42 +0000

A nontheist is often a person who sees the value of religion (the tolerant, inclusive, liberal varieties such as Paganism, Unitarianism and Quakers) and spirituality but doesn't actually believe in a god or gods.

An atheist tends to be someone who doesn't believe in god/s or see the value of religion.

If I had been baptised in the Church of England, I would get one of these certificates and insist on removal from the register, because I would object to being used to prop up the institution of bishops in the House of Lords.

Where baptism commits the child to a specific religion or spiritual path, it's clearly wrong. Having some sort of naming ceremony to welcome the child to the human family is fine, as long as they can make their own choice of what religion they want to participate in (or not, as the case may be).

By: David Coleman

David Coleman — Sat, 04 Apr 2009 07:13:24 +0000

This seems spiteful and ignorant, and as one writer above said, if you do not believe in your Baptism, it cannot really ‘harm’ you in any way. As a Christian minister I do not believe in the possibility of a baby starting life with a negative score-card, and would caution the secular society against assuming and maliciously promoting the idea that Baptism does need to be seen together with an adherence to a very narrow and mindless interpretation of ‘original sin’ which is a comment on the human tendency to mess things up, rather than a personalised record.
For those of us that do believe in Baptism, however, it is indeed irrevocable: we would not rebaptise someone who tried to revoke it and had a change of heart, but welcome them back anyway, perhaps with a reaffirmation of their original baptism. In the meantime, yes, there are millions of people out there who repudiate their baptism by non-involvement in the community of the church. Is this news to anyone at all? It is not in the gift of any church (certainly not the Church of England alone) to cancel Baptism, but every citizen is perfectly free to repudiate it by how they live their life.

By: Godless not gormless

Godless not gormless — Sun, 29 Mar 2009 21:36:30 +0000

Alan C,

Thanks for that info. Wish I’d known that at the time! I don’t actually intend to spend much time with this plonker. His attitude is a disgrace and I know I will get nowhere with him. I intend to tell him that what they have written on my entry in the baptismal record is unacceptable to me then when says “well you can just fuck off then you heathen” I’ll just ask who his ‘boss’ is and move on up the line.

I am then going to make it plain to ‘the boss’ that I am offended by the monsignor’s attitude which is disgraceful for a xtian and a man of the cloth (yeah right! What else would I expect but I might as well play the game) and take it from there.

Thanks for the good luck wish. I think I’ll need it!

By: Stonyground

Stonyground — Sun, 29 Mar 2009 19:28:38 +0000

Bubblecar, I have considered doing something about this ever since I read about it in Barbara Smoker’s book, but so far have not got around to it. I don’t really have any “unpleasant baggage” but I am not too happy about having been initiated into Christianity’s revolting cult without my consent, I don’t really hold it against my parents, they are Christians and in those days everyone did it. I think I might have born quite a grudge had they been Jewish.

I certainly think that it is worth letting the Church know your position on the matter and this to me is the more important issue.

By: Broga

Broga — Sun, 29 Mar 2009 13:35:29 +0000

We didn’t baptise either of our children. They are adults now and, even if I do say it myself, balanced, mature and atheists.

By: Alan C.

Alan C. — Sun, 29 Mar 2009 12:25:20 +0000

#Godless not gormless.
Then in a major turn around in attitude, he started playing the victim when I didn’t use the title “father” in reference to the parish priest. I told him “he’s not my father and I don’t recognize that title” to which he replied “it’s only common courtesy”.#

The Priest obviously doesn’t know his bible, point out to him Matthew 23:9 – And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.
Good luck.

By: Bubblecar

Bubblecar — Sun, 29 Mar 2009 10:33:11 +0000

My parents baptised me into the Ukrainian Autocephalic Church (purely to be sociable, I presume, since they weren’t very religious then, and ended up atheist). I still have the baptismal certificate, and wouldn’t dream of getting rid of it – it’s an interesting little part of my past. I suppose many of those going in for “debaptism” have some unpleasant baggage associated with their childhood that they feel inclined to get rid of in this way.

By: Kev

Kev — Sun, 29 Mar 2009 09:18:11 +0000

Shargraves…I have had to endure similar questions because we decided not to have any of our three kids christened/baptised or whatever. I was once asked by a family member ‘…how are they going to grow up knowing right from wrong and know how to treat other people with respect?’ Eventually the conversation turned to coloured folk, gays, etc and this very same family member REALLY showed us how to respect others; her being a good baptised christian!!!! If you get my drift.

By: quedula

quedula — Sun, 29 Mar 2009 08:12:02 +0000

@newspaniard. For myself I always prefer the term anti-religionist. I have no problem with what people believe so long as they keep it to themselves and don’t claim special priviledges on the basis of their beliefs.

By: Bubblecar

Bubblecar — Sun, 29 Mar 2009 02:51:22 +0000

Says Buffy: “The certificate is a nice idea and it’s obviously riling up the nitwits–and riling them up is always a good thing IMO.”

Hmm. I would suggest it’s really telling them: “No matter how much they reject us, it seems they just can’t get over their fascination with us.”
And there’s probably some truth in that…