HE has been described as the “ideal man” for the job of minister at Queen’s Cross kirk in Aberdeen – but the Rev Scott Rennie’s appointment to the post has set Scottish Christians at one another’s throats.
The Rev Scott Rennie
The row escalated at the weekend when the Free Church of Scotland posted a link on its website to an online petition against the minister’s appointment.
This move, according to this report, has drawn criticism from within the Kirk, with the accusation that the Free Church was interfering in its private business.
The controversial appointment is due to be debated and voted on at the General Assembly later this month.
Iver Martin, who posted the link and is a spokesman for the “Wee Frees”, said the issue had become a wider question of morality.
He denied that placing the link was an official sanction of the petition, claiming instead he was offering Free Church members the opportunity to voice their concerns on an important issue. So far, more than 9,000 members of the church have signed the petition.
Martin stressed that the Free Church was not being homophobic, stating that it was “a question of morality”.
But the Rev Peter Johnston, spokesman for One Kirk, which supports gay rights within the church, described the Free Church’s involvement as “unhelpful”.
This is a case that is being taken to the General Assembly, so the whole petition is meddling in a judicial case belonging to the Church of Scotland. Supporting and encouraging people (to sign it] would seem to rather be a step in that direction.
Johnston added that the Free Church’s involvement in the case was “ironic”.
The whole reason the Free Church was formed was over freedom of religious conscience, the right of congregations to call their own ministers, and yet here we are, we have the Free Church trying to impose their own will on the Church of Scotland.
The petition says that if the General Assembly of the Church of Scotland votes to support the Presbytery of Aberdeen’s appointment of the gay minister:
It will publicly declare such behaviour as acceptable and honourable for a leader in Christ’s church. This would mark a historic departure for our church from the teaching of the catholic Christian faith, and a radical deviation from the clear Scriptural pattern that recognises the sanctity of marriage between one man and one woman as the only proper place for sexual intimacy – a pattern which our church has hitherto always publicly affirmed.
To now declare explicitly an active homosexual lifestyle as holy, something the Bible unambiguously calls sin, denies in the most public fashion the authority of the church’s only Lord and Master, Jesus Christ. Our church would thus position itself outwith the fellowship of orthodox, credal Christianity worldwide.
It adds:
We stand thus to publicly affirm our love, honour and deep respect for all our Christian brothers and sisters who wrestle painfully with homosexual temptation but fight faithfully to live lives of purity, following Christ Jesus as his true disciples. We assure them of all pastoral support, care and mutual encouragement as they, along with us, ‘strive…for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord.’ (Hebrews 12:14)
We further wish to affirm our continuing solidarity in fellowship with Christian churches worldwide who hold and maintain the historic faith, doctrine, and discipline of the one holy, catholic and apostolic church, once for all delivered to the saints in the Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments.
The Freethinker was founded in 1881 by GW Foote, an outspoken critic of religion. After the publication of 
May 11th, 2009 at 9:33 am
I reject the notion that homophobia and discrimination of LGBT people has anything to do with Christian values! Jesus Christ is Love, and HE blesses love, both gay and hetero!
All my solidarity to Rev Scott Rennie!
May 11th, 2009 at 10:01 am
"Christians at one another`s throats"!! So what`s new about that then?!!
May 11th, 2009 at 12:18 pm
I just love to watch those loony christians self destruct. They spend to much time on their homosexuality obsession, rather than helping others or dispensing their considerable wealth to the needy.
There is a strong smell of troll around here.
May 11th, 2009 at 3:14 pm
To paraphrase Bill Hicks; now we have priests of all sexual preferences I don't listen to! Hurrah! The sweet smell of progress.
May 11th, 2009 at 5:27 pm
The homophobia and discrimination that you refer to comes from the Bible, Specifically Leviticus and the writings of St. Paul. By the way St. Paul also said that women should shut up and do as they are told. So is it the word of God or not? Either Gays should be stoned to death or left alone to get on with their lives in peace, which is it?
May 11th, 2009 at 7:39 pm
Do away to St Paul and the arc haic, surpassed Leviticus! They aren't ye Word of God. Only Jesus is.
May 11th, 2009 at 8:10 pm
Leviticus Ch. 18 Vs. 22 "You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination." Matthew Ch. 5 Vs. 17-18 "Think not that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfil them. For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law untill all is accomplished." R.S.V.
May 11th, 2009 at 9:37 pm
In Luke 17 in the New Testament, Jesus said that one of the big "signs" that will happen shortly before His return to earth as Judge will be a repeat of the "days of Lot" (see Genesis 19 for details). So gays are actually helping to fulfill this same worldwide "sign" (and making the Bible even more believable!) and thus hurrying up the return of the Judge! They are accomplishing what many preachers haven't accomplished! Gays couldn't have accomplished this by just coming out of closets into bedrooms. Instead, they invented new architecture – you know, closets opening on to Main Streets where little kids would be able to watch naked men having sex with each other at festivals in places like San Francisco (where their underground saint – San Andreas – may soon get a big jolt out of what's going on over his head!). Thanks, gays, for figuring out how to bring back our resurrected Saviour even quicker!
May 11th, 2009 at 9:58 pm
But Jesus (if he ever existed) considered the Old Testament to be the inspired Word of God! "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no way pass from the law, till all be fulfilled" (Matt.5:18). Like the Mohammedans with THEIR prophet, the "Jesus" you are following is a figment of your imagination!!
May 11th, 2009 at 9:59 pm
Ah! Bill Hicks – how we miss HIM!!!
May 11th, 2009 at 10:36 pm
Ya got to luv those Xtians!!!
They get their morals from the ByBull. Right???
Were does it say being Homosexual is bad? An abomination? NO WHERE!!!!
All those quotes say is Man LAYING with MAN. Whether hetro or Homo it is bad.
Now is this minister doing the ACT??? if not then according to their SUPPOSED rules he is OK.
Remember Hate the Sin – not the sinner.
Again they are showing the deeply ingrained hypocracy and self-hate.
Why don't they do everyone a favor. Line up facing each other and shoot. Last man standing makes the rule and gets all the women stupid enough to follow the Xtian rules.
May 11th, 2009 at 10:40 pm
As Baptists we hate the sin, not the sinner, and we try to save the homers.
True, the Salvation® may require baseball bats, car batteries and the like, but we try.
The King James Bible is the ONLY True Word of God and should not be changed in any way, shape or form.
Why?
Because God says so.
May 12th, 2009 at 7:34 am
i'm a proud gay Christian. I don't believe homosexuality or homosexual acts between loving onsenssual sadults to be a sin. Love can't be a sign,.Hate is.
May 12th, 2009 at 8:12 am
Are you on drugs or something Talitha – not only do I not understand a word of what you are saying here, but I don`t see its relevance to the subject in question! Why are you trying to save the Homer Simpsons – they are just fictional characters, like Jesus, Mary and Joseph!!
Stonyground – I swear that your comment was not visible when I posted mine, or I would not have repeated your thoughts almost verbatim, but at least I don`t have to say that I am in perfect agreement with you again, do I? Talk about "great minds think alike"!!!
May 12th, 2009 at 8:15 am
I posted a reply here last night saying how much we all miss Bill Hicks, but it has mysteriously disappeared – so here it is again!!
May 12th, 2009 at 9:43 am
Apropos Talitha`s earlier comment regarding the King James Bible being the only true Word of God ("because God says so"!) – this statement isn`t as funny as it at first appears. I used to belong to a group of fundamentalist evangelicals who believed much the same as this! The reason why the translators of the KJV were believed to be divinely guided in their work was, however, because this translation (obviously) supports traditional, protestant, trinitarian views, whereas others cast doubt on much of what they hold sacred!! The Trinitarian Bible Society used to produce masses of material in support of the thesis that the KJV was the ONLY reliable translation of The Bible, and for all I know still do, but how you explain away the obvious errors in the translation, or the fact that modern language specialists have cast new light on ancient Hebrew and Greek expressions I have no idea!!
May 12th, 2009 at 9:52 am
I hope you`re not being serious here James! When I belonged to the dreaded "Plymouth Brethren" I heard many members say that the worse things became in the world the better it was really, because that just meant that "The Lord`s Return" was even more imminent!! Just how twisted can a person become, eh?!! (By the way, his "return" has been "imminent" since I was first ensnared by them in 1958!!!)
May 12th, 2009 at 9:55 am
Am I the only one whose comments keep appearing and then disappearing on this site? What is going on?
May 12th, 2009 at 10:25 am
I posted a reply to James 25 mins ago, which has now disappeared, but is still on the list of comments on my profile, so at least I know that I`m not imagining things! What I said was, that when I was a member of the Plymouth Brethren, many members stated that the worse the state of things became in the world the better it was really, as it meant that "The Lord`s Return" was even more imminent!! Even then, I thought that this was a particularly nasty and twisted way of looking at things, but then they ARE fundamentalists, and this way of thinking does strange things to your mind! The "Lord`s Return", by the way, was "imminent" when I was recruited by them in 1958!!!
May 12th, 2009 at 10:43 am
My replies to Stonyground and Talitha have disappeared now (help!!!), but I have just noticed that Talitha is a representative of the greatly esteemed "Landover Baptists" , who are doing such great work ( http://www.landoverbaptist.org ), so I am not worried about her mental state any more (much!). As I have said before on many occasions, though, the views of these fundamentalists are so strange that it is far from easy to distinguish between truth and satire!!
May 12th, 2009 at 10:47 am
By the way Talitha – I see that your members are "Practising Christians". When are they going to get it right?
May 12th, 2009 at 11:42 am
In the end, no homophobic christian can be taken seriously because they get ALL their ideas and morality from an ancient text of stories and parables that contradict scientific facts about our planets history (see evolution, dinosars etc). As far as they are concerned, they have an invisible and intangible Almighty on their side, so no amount of logic, reason and human compassion will ever sway their backward and devisive ideas. They will always interpret these ancient texts to support their irrational fears that homosexuality is some kind of evil or a plague that will stop the human race from procreating.
Let gullible dogs lie while the rest of us evolve into intelligent, rational beings.
May 12th, 2009 at 11:58 am
barriejohn,
Some years ago I helped run a forestry course for people recovering from mental illness ( possibly not the best idea given the axes and chainsaws involved! ) One day I was in my office and one of our clients came in and told me his story. He was in the Plymouth Brethren and had been unfaithful to his wife. The treatment he received from the Brethren for his infidelity was enough to push him into a spiral of depression and self loathing that ended up eating away at the poor mans sanity. It was some of the saddest shit I'd ever heard. I tried to reason with him but I'm no shrink, I really hope he came good in the end, he was a lovely chap. I take my hat off to you for making the break you did, much respect to you.
May 12th, 2009 at 11:59 am
Not at all, we are the few who get it 100% correct.
We are True Christians™ not the Fluffy Bunny type who corrupt the True Word.
May 12th, 2009 at 12:22 pm
It is very difficult to break free from these people, and I have received treatment for depression myself! I can truly say that they have ruined my life. If you have never been inveigled into one of these sects you can have no idea of the way that they completely take over every single aspect of your life. Even now I receive letters from them pleading with me to "return to the Lord", and assuring me that they never cease to pray for me, as the Devil has me in his grip. I dread meeting up with any of them anywhere, as any innocent conversation just becomes an opportunity (from "the Lord" of course!) to harangue me!! But do you know the worst thing? It`s the guilt; because I USED TO BE EXACTLY LIKE THEM!!!
May 12th, 2009 at 12:24 pm
But ALL Christians are "The True Christians" Talitha – I thought you would have been aware of that by now!!
May 12th, 2009 at 12:27 pm
It doesn`t mater what YOU think Angelo. If you are a Christian, then you have to follow what The Bible says, you dope!!
May 12th, 2009 at 1:21 pm
I'mk a FREE Thinker Christian. I don'tt feel compelled t6o believe all the archaic, deoassè nonsense the bible says! I believe uin the Living Jesus whitin me, non in a bunch of dead words!
For the Word of Jesus is within you. Learn to love, despise hate,if the bible tells you to hate, out with the bible!
May 12th, 2009 at 1:58 pm
You said the most important thing yourself, "used to be like them!". You cant change the past but you are in full control of your future. I fear your guilt is misplaced and maybe tinged with regret, OK so you were wrong once, well now your right and its to your credit. I hope you give yourself as much praise for being right now, as you do guilt, for having once been wrong ( See, I told you I was no shrink.)
Maybe they did ruin your life, so far, but it aint over till the fat lady sings, I'm sure the best is yet to come.
Best of luck to you.
May 12th, 2009 at 2:47 pm
I appreciate what you are saying wurble, but I have just turned 63, and my career as a teacher went down the pan due to the psychological problems that these jerks caused me! I`m not expecting to be elected Prime Minister any time soon!!
May 12th, 2009 at 6:40 pm
Sorry Angelo but you are talking rubbish. According to my dictionary Christianity is "The religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus Christ and the Bible." if you don't subscribe to these things then by definition you are not a Christian. In fact, since the teachings of Christ are mostly impractical to the point of absurdity, I suspect almost no one is.
It also has a definition of freethinker as "A person who forms opinions on the basis of reason; especially one who rejects religious dogma." I leave that one for you to decide.
May 13th, 2009 at 1:46 am
Barriejohn made this comment:
" and for all I know still do, but how you explain away the obvious errors in the translation, or the fact that modern language specialists have cast new light on ancient Hebrew and Greek expressions I have no idea!! "
Response: I like those last four words. "I have no idea". I believe that to be self evident. Did you know that there were actually scores of "gospels" written by the gnostics and the maccabees. None of them made it into the christian canon as a result of King James and his staff of clerics?
Why? Because just like the ones in the christian accepted canon, they contradict each other, just as all stories of mythology do. Only not so flagrantly.
By the way barriejohn, stop insulting me in my email box, bring your issues and your facts here, where we can all discuss them in open forem.
NL
May 13th, 2009 at 1:52 am
Wow, not so long ago, I was recieving a package of greif from you when I put forth the idea that christians, and the bath of blood that is their history, were as bad as the muslims. Do you just turn your nose in whichever direction the brainfart isn't blowing?
NL
May 13th, 2009 at 9:18 am
The hypocrisy of these people is staggering… For how long before he was outed did he give relationship advice and preach celibacy? Mind blowing how hypocritical the little bastard is. And mind you, he still believes in celibacy – just not for him. And I bet you he still gives relationship advice on how to be honest and open. Pathetic just pathetic.
May 13th, 2009 at 4:47 pm
In Luke 17 in the New Testament, Jesus said that one of the big "signs" that will happen shortly before His return to earth as Judge will be a repeat of the "days of Lot" (see Genesis 19 for details). So gays are actually helping to fulfill this same worldwide "sign" (and making the Bible even more believable!) and thus hurrying up the return of the Judge! They are accomplishing what many preachers haven't accomplished! Gays couldn't have accomplished this by just coming out of closets into bedrooms. Instead, they invented new architecture – you know, closets opening on to Main Streets where little kids would be able to watch naked men having sex with each other at festivals in places like San Francisco (where their underground saint – San Andreas – may soon get a big jolt out of what's going on over his head!). Thanks, gays, for figuring out how to bring back our resurrected Saviour even quicker!
May 13th, 2009 at 5:40 pm
I thought that 'James' post above might have been you Bob.
Hutton dressed as flam!
May 13th, 2009 at 5:58 pm
I did apologize to you yesterday for repeating your words almost verbatim, Stonyground, but when I made my comment yours was not visible! I also said that not only was I in complete agreement with you again but it was obviously a case of "great minds think alike". Sadly, all this disappeared into the ether as well, although it is still on my profile page as proof that I am not losing my mind (much)!!
May 13th, 2009 at 6:01 pm
I posted a comment yesterday Talitha ( which is still on my profile pages, so you may have seen it before it "disappeared" for all I know) saying that ALL Christians seem to believe that they are "The True Christians"! This fact can be somewhat confusing to the layman!!
May 13th, 2009 at 6:21 pm
I actually replied to this comment TWICE yesterday (or was it James`s comment: I`m now completely confused), and both replies seem to have disappeared! Maybe Bob (or is it James?) has found that his comments keep disappearing as well. What I said was that when I was a member of the Plymouth Brethren, many of the membership seriously believed that the worse the state of the world became the better it was, because that meant that the "Lord`s Return" was even nearer. I always considered this a very nasty and twisted point of view, and still do, especially coming from Christians. Interestingly, "The Lord`s Return" was "imminent" when I was first inveigled into joining the wretched organization in 1958!!
May 13th, 2009 at 6:32 pm
This is a reply to Norman Lycan, who for some obscure reason doesn`t want replies posted under "Replies". I can assure all readers that I am not sending him emails, only replies on this site!
I have no idea what you are on about Norman, as I am in total agreement with you there, so I don`t know why you are having another go at me!! Did you realize that Talitha`s comments were purely satirical (she is a "worker" for the world-renowned "Landover Baptists" qv ); and did you read my reply to her carefully?
May 13th, 2009 at 8:20 pm
I think we are all well aware that you are not personally harassing Norman via email. He made the same accusation against Dr Harwood several threads ago. I did comment then that with this new comment regime a reply to a post is forwarded to the original commenter via the email address given in their login, but that post was deleted or 'censored' or just disappeared up Barry's starfish.
Ho hum.
Methinks 'tis but a softy-ware problem that needs to be a'fixed.
May 13th, 2009 at 9:34 pm
The very reason our expensive Jew Lawyers have sorted out the ™ symbol for our True Christian™ Church.
I suspect there are "unseen forces" at work deleting your Posts Mr Barriejohn. Jesus watches everything and everyone.
May 13th, 2009 at 10:45 pm
"Jesus watches everything and everyone."
Methinks 'tis The Devil that doth deleteth and destroy our missives. Or, perchance, that new fucking software shite!
Barry. Sort it out for fucks sake. I've had no end of utterly brilliant, insightful comments go down the plughole.
May 14th, 2009 at 12:01 am
Wow! A brilliant, insightful comment from remigius – I`d just LOVE to see that one! PLEASE Barry – can`t you recover it for us – just to prove that he`s really capable of it? (And don`t you DARE accuse me of "harrassing" you remigius!!)
And by the way, Talitha, if it is Our Blessed Lord and Saviour Who has been removing my comments I`ve got news for you – He`s putting them back again!!!
May 14th, 2009 at 12:07 am
This is another reply to Norman – other readers please ignore it! I don`t think I ever disagreed with your comments regarding bloodthirsty Christians. I do remember your comment, and the replies that you received, but I`m pretty sure that I didn`t get involved!! (My advice would be: be as controversial as you wish, but don`t let it appear that you might be rubbishing people`s sincerely held views, as that can get them pretty worked up! Well – not unless you think their views ARE actually rubbish of course!!)
May 15th, 2009 at 3:43 pm
I thought this troll had been flushed. Is it not self-evident that an unteachable, who cannot grasp that posting proof of his ignorance to a site designed for the educated is a waste of his time and ours, is dangerously, totally, irrefutably insane? But what incurably godphuqt brain amputee is not?
May 15th, 2009 at 4:20 pm
Different Bob.
May 15th, 2009 at 8:18 pm
barriejohn. If I gave a shit, which I don't, I would…
Fuck it!
I don't give a shit, so I won't…
May 15th, 2009 at 9:23 pm
Oh shit. They're breeding!