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	<title>Comments on: Children die when parents pray &#8211; or use quack medicine</title>
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	<link>http://freethinker.co.uk/2009/06/16/children-die-when-parents-pray-%e2%80%93-or-use-quack-medicine/</link>
	<description>The voice of atheism since 1881</description>
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		<title>By: Rae</title>
		<link>http://freethinker.co.uk/2009/06/16/children-die-when-parents-pray-%e2%80%93-or-use-quack-medicine/comment-page-1/#comment-32573</link>
		<dc:creator>Rae</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Apr 2010 03:38:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freethinker.co.uk/?p=6730#comment-32573</guid>
		<description>@ dead yeti. How are Chiropractors &quot;voodoo&quot;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ dead yeti. How are Chiropractors &#8220;voodoo&#8221;?</p>
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		<title>By: greg</title>
		<link>http://freethinker.co.uk/2009/06/16/children-die-when-parents-pray-%e2%80%93-or-use-quack-medicine/comment-page-1/#comment-20128</link>
		<dc:creator>greg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2009 12:04:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freethinker.co.uk/?p=6730#comment-20128</guid>
		<description>Stupid Feks! God isn&#039;t true anyway., it&#039;s all a story </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stupid Feks! God isn&#039;t true anyway., it&#039;s all a story</p>
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		<title>By: William Harwood</title>
		<link>http://freethinker.co.uk/2009/06/16/children-die-when-parents-pray-%e2%80%93-or-use-quack-medicine/comment-page-1/#comment-17791</link>
		<dc:creator>William Harwood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Jun 2009 03:23:28 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Anyone who defends homeopathy or any other medical quackery is a disinformed ignoramus with zero competence to evaluate evidence objectively. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anyone who defends homeopathy or any other medical quackery is a disinformed ignoramus with zero competence to evaluate evidence objectively.</p>
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		<title>By: Callisto</title>
		<link>http://freethinker.co.uk/2009/06/16/children-die-when-parents-pray-%e2%80%93-or-use-quack-medicine/comment-page-1/#comment-17682</link>
		<dc:creator>Callisto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 08:54:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freethinker.co.uk/?p=6730#comment-17682</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://skepticblog.org/2009/06/15/homeopathy-awareness-week/&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot;&gt;http://skepticblog.org/2009/06/15/homeopathy-awar...&lt;/a&gt; 
 
say no more... </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://skepticblog.org/2009/06/15/homeopathy-awareness-week/" target="_blank">http://skepticblog.org/2009/06.....war&#8230;</a> </p>
<p>say no more&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Angela_K</title>
		<link>http://freethinker.co.uk/2009/06/16/children-die-when-parents-pray-%e2%80%93-or-use-quack-medicine/comment-page-1/#comment-17681</link>
		<dc:creator>Angela_K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 08:29:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freethinker.co.uk/?p=6730#comment-17681</guid>
		<description>I think we many be confusing two types &#8220;natural remedies&#8221; 
 
Homeopathy is the continued dilution of a substance in water many times so that there is a one in a very big number chance of even a single molecule being present in the final &#8220;medicine&#8221; Supporters of Homeopathy claim that this water has some sort of memory, but tests have found no evidence of this. Homeopathy has been subjected to double blind properly monitored scientific trials and found to be ineffective; any perceived effect is merely placebo. Have a look at Quackwatch or James Randi&#8217;s site. Homeopathy is junk science of the worse kind and a great money making scam. The personal testament of even millions of people does not counter the fact that there is no EVIDENCE to support their claim and that science has found against them. 
 
It is true to say that some natural remedies e.g. plant extracts, herbs etc are indeed effective in treating certain symptoms. Furthermore, many manufactured drugs use material extracted from natural sources such as plants. 
 </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think we many be confusing two types &ldquo;natural remedies&rdquo; </p>
<p>Homeopathy is the continued dilution of a substance in water many times so that there is a one in a very big number chance of even a single molecule being present in the final &ldquo;medicine&rdquo; Supporters of Homeopathy claim that this water has some sort of memory, but tests have found no evidence of this. Homeopathy has been subjected to double blind properly monitored scientific trials and found to be ineffective; any perceived effect is merely placebo. Have a look at Quackwatch or James Randi&rsquo;s site. Homeopathy is junk science of the worse kind and a great money making scam. The personal testament of even millions of people does not counter the fact that there is no EVIDENCE to support their claim and that science has found against them. </p>
<p>It is true to say that some natural remedies e.g. plant extracts, herbs etc are indeed effective in treating certain symptoms. Furthermore, many manufactured drugs use material extracted from natural sources such as plants.</p>
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		<title>By: valdemar</title>
		<link>http://freethinker.co.uk/2009/06/16/children-die-when-parents-pray-%e2%80%93-or-use-quack-medicine/comment-page-1/#comment-17680</link>
		<dc:creator>valdemar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 07:18:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freethinker.co.uk/?p=6730#comment-17680</guid>
		<description>Sometimes people just get better. Some people have strong immune systems. Some people are simply lucky and dodge the bullet. None of these obvious facts excuse homeopathy, which is crank nonsense. All this anti-vaccine stuff is put about by alternative practitioners whose motives are every bit as financial as any big pharma firm. Or do homeopathists work for free?  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sometimes people just get better. Some people have strong immune systems. Some people are simply lucky and dodge the bullet. None of these obvious facts excuse homeopathy, which is crank nonsense. All this anti-vaccine stuff is put about by alternative practitioners whose motives are every bit as financial as any big pharma firm. Or do homeopathists work for free?</p>
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		<title>By: GNG</title>
		<link>http://freethinker.co.uk/2009/06/16/children-die-when-parents-pray-%e2%80%93-or-use-quack-medicine/comment-page-1/#comment-17673</link>
		<dc:creator>GNG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jun 2009 22:55:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freethinker.co.uk/?p=6730#comment-17673</guid>
		<description>Bubblecar:  
  
&quot;Why would you expect that to happen, unless you had one of the few specific medical needs that could be over and done with during a single consultation?&quot;  
  
You&#039;re taking that a bit too literally there Bubblecar. I didn&#039;t actually mean I expect doctors to cure people in one visit. What I actually mean here is that I don&#039;t think doctors actually cure anything. Usually, people find themselves on a long term plan like asthma sufferers who have to use inhalers for life or people with skin complaints who have to constantly change from one cream to another as each one&#039;s effectiveness wears off, never getting rid of the condition. Modern medical practice is about people living with their ailments whilst taking drugs or using creams on and off or constantly in order to mask the symptoms. Just like in the case of my doctor, underlying causes are often never even considered.   
  
Look at the present situation with swine flu. This seems to have been blown out of all proportion. Maybe not enough people were taking up the standard flu vaccinations therefore impacting on drug company profits so a new scare was invented to make the public think again. Who really stands to gain from this? Drug companies and their shareholders. It&#039;s really just another form of flu. It will amount to very little in most people, but those who are old and infirm, the very young with immature immune systems and those who have other complications may be at more risk of suffering more severely or even dying, but this thing has almost been built up to sound like it&#039;s the end of civilization.   
  
I have personal examples of alternative medicine and treatments being very effective ON THEIR OWN (Stuart H) and know of others with similar experiences. I also recognise that I have had negative experiences with alternative treatments and I am open minded enough to realise and accept this. Personally, I would rather try a natural route first before taking synthetic substances which may cause other problems. This does not mean using homeopathy which is something I have tried very little of and, I might add, without much success.   
  
Stuart H:  
  
&quot;though I also gather the bit missed from claims of many homeopathic &#039;cures&#039; is the patient took the conventional medicine THEN went to the homeopath, so it might just have been the course of &#039;proper&#039; medicine finally kicking in, not the hocus pocus&quot;  
  
Please understand that I&#039;m not here defending homeopathy, but what is the basis for this claim? Do you have figures to back it up or is it just a guess? There are documented cases of people being cured of major conditions using natural remedies, again, probably not homeopathy. Let&#039;s not get pedantic about it. Both systems have their merits though I agree that there are plenty of charlatans out there in the alternative camp, peddling fake cures and making false claims. The trouble seems to be that each camp is unprepared to give any ground to the other. I don&#039;t know enough about homeopathy to make a judgement though it seems to be a favourite for people to bash.  
  
Mungo:  
  
I gave my children homeopathic vaccinations. The lady who supplied them told me that she would prefer not to but that parents were pressured into doing something. She believed that the best thing was just to let the body learn by itself. I have seen no evidence of my chidren being more ill than any others. When chicken pox hit the nursery they were in, all the children there contracted it and presumably all the other children were vaccinated conventionally. My son who was 2yo wasn&#039;t really ill with it. He just had spots. My daughter was under one year and suffered a little bit more.  
  
This is a big subject and there is much to consider but I would prefer not to give my children the crap that is in vaccines. There is good logic behind homeopathic vaccines (whether or not they  genuinely work might be debatable) and my children seem very healthy. They certainly look healthier than most other kids I see and we all follow a vegan diet. Oooohh!! More voodoo! lol  
  
Godless Not Gormless </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bubblecar:  </p>
<p>&quot;Why would you expect that to happen, unless you had one of the few specific medical needs that could be over and done with during a single consultation?&quot;  </p>
<p>You&#39;re taking that a bit too literally there Bubblecar. I didn&#39;t actually mean I expect doctors to cure people in one visit. What I actually mean here is that I don&#39;t think doctors actually cure anything. Usually, people find themselves on a long term plan like asthma sufferers who have to use inhalers for life or people with skin complaints who have to constantly change from one cream to another as each one&#39;s effectiveness wears off, never getting rid of the condition. Modern medical practice is about people living with their ailments whilst taking drugs or using creams on and off or constantly in order to mask the symptoms. Just like in the case of my doctor, underlying causes are often never even considered.   </p>
<p>Look at the present situation with swine flu. This seems to have been blown out of all proportion. Maybe not enough people were taking up the standard flu vaccinations therefore impacting on drug company profits so a new scare was invented to make the public think again. Who really stands to gain from this? Drug companies and their shareholders. It&#39;s really just another form of flu. It will amount to very little in most people, but those who are old and infirm, the very young with immature immune systems and those who have other complications may be at more risk of suffering more severely or even dying, but this thing has almost been built up to sound like it&#39;s the end of civilization.   </p>
<p>I have personal examples of alternative medicine and treatments being very effective ON THEIR OWN (Stuart H) and know of others with similar experiences. I also recognise that I have had negative experiences with alternative treatments and I am open minded enough to realise and accept this. Personally, I would rather try a natural route first before taking synthetic substances which may cause other problems. This does not mean using homeopathy which is something I have tried very little of and, I might add, without much success.   </p>
<p>Stuart H:  </p>
<p>&quot;though I also gather the bit missed from claims of many homeopathic &#39;cures&#39; is the patient took the conventional medicine THEN went to the homeopath, so it might just have been the course of &#39;proper&#39; medicine finally kicking in, not the hocus pocus&quot;  </p>
<p>Please understand that I&#39;m not here defending homeopathy, but what is the basis for this claim? Do you have figures to back it up or is it just a guess? There are documented cases of people being cured of major conditions using natural remedies, again, probably not homeopathy. Let&#39;s not get pedantic about it. Both systems have their merits though I agree that there are plenty of charlatans out there in the alternative camp, peddling fake cures and making false claims. The trouble seems to be that each camp is unprepared to give any ground to the other. I don&#39;t know enough about homeopathy to make a judgement though it seems to be a favourite for people to bash.  </p>
<p>Mungo:  </p>
<p>I gave my children homeopathic vaccinations. The lady who supplied them told me that she would prefer not to but that parents were pressured into doing something. She believed that the best thing was just to let the body learn by itself. I have seen no evidence of my chidren being more ill than any others. When chicken pox hit the nursery they were in, all the children there contracted it and presumably all the other children were vaccinated conventionally. My son who was 2yo wasn&#39;t really ill with it. He just had spots. My daughter was under one year and suffered a little bit more.  </p>
<p>This is a big subject and there is much to consider but I would prefer not to give my children the crap that is in vaccines. There is good logic behind homeopathic vaccines (whether or not they  genuinely work might be debatable) and my children seem very healthy. They certainly look healthier than most other kids I see and we all follow a vegan diet. Oooohh!! More voodoo! lol  </p>
<p>Godless Not Gormless</p>
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		<title>By: dead yeti</title>
		<link>http://freethinker.co.uk/2009/06/16/children-die-when-parents-pray-%e2%80%93-or-use-quack-medicine/comment-page-1/#comment-17672</link>
		<dc:creator>dead yeti</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jun 2009 19:05:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freethinker.co.uk/?p=6730#comment-17672</guid>
		<description>i really hope these parents get a long sentance, if you want to pray for yourself fine go ahead don&#039;t bother me at all but to inflict it on children is just sick - dawkins is right religion in kids is child abuse. 
 and we really must get homeopathy banned from describing itself as medicine. its beyond a joke either it proves itself in double blinds and you take a medical degree to prescribe it or it shouldn&#039;t be allowed to make  its claims for cures same for reiki, faith healing, chiropractors and other sorts of voodoo </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i really hope these parents get a long sentance, if you want to pray for yourself fine go ahead don&#039;t bother me at all but to inflict it on children is just sick &#8211; dawkins is right religion in kids is child abuse.<br />
 and we really must get homeopathy banned from describing itself as medicine. its beyond a joke either it proves itself in double blinds and you take a medical degree to prescribe it or it shouldn&#039;t be allowed to make  its claims for cures same for reiki, faith healing, chiropractors and other sorts of voodoo</p>
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		<title>By: ste</title>
		<link>http://freethinker.co.uk/2009/06/16/children-die-when-parents-pray-%e2%80%93-or-use-quack-medicine/comment-page-1/#comment-17670</link>
		<dc:creator>ste</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jun 2009 18:32:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freethinker.co.uk/?p=6730#comment-17670</guid>
		<description>alternative medicine - if it works - gets called medicine. 
 
 </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>alternative medicine &#8211; if it works &#8211; gets called medicine.</p>
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		<title>By: mungo</title>
		<link>http://freethinker.co.uk/2009/06/16/children-die-when-parents-pray-%e2%80%93-or-use-quack-medicine/comment-page-1/#comment-17669</link>
		<dc:creator>mungo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jun 2009 18:05:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freethinker.co.uk/?p=6730#comment-17669</guid>
		<description>I was given a lot of homeopathic remedies as a child which was grand as a placebo, have a few bumps and a sugar pills does wonders. I also wasn&#039;t vaccinated because of the MMR scare,  if you look at medical ghastliness such as thalidomide children and the possibility even faint of your child being autistic rather than having measles I can see the reasons for both. However after my mother had a very successful treatment for leukemia and maintained that she probably could have got better through alternatives alone I questioned the whole business. Her perception was that pharmaceutical companies were entirely for profit and all drugs, including the pills that demonstrably changed her from a shrunken, slightly rotten shadow of who she was to a healthy active adult were basically fakes and harmful. I think the difficulty is that, as in religious cases, we see the small benefits, ala the placebo effect and excuse the sloppy thinking and active harm it causes.  i find it hard to convince my mother than medicine is there to help you since the information she&#039;s gleaned in her life from environmental, protest groups, various hippies and homeopaths comes forefront and is not combatted enough in the media and by law.  
 </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was given a lot of homeopathic remedies as a child which was grand as a placebo, have a few bumps and a sugar pills does wonders. I also wasn&#039;t vaccinated because of the MMR scare,  if you look at medical ghastliness such as thalidomide children and the possibility even faint of your child being autistic rather than having measles I can see the reasons for both. However after my mother had a very successful treatment for leukemia and maintained that she probably could have got better through alternatives alone I questioned the whole business. Her perception was that pharmaceutical companies were entirely for profit and all drugs, including the pills that demonstrably changed her from a shrunken, slightly rotten shadow of who she was to a healthy active adult were basically fakes and harmful. I think the difficulty is that, as in religious cases, we see the small benefits, ala the placebo effect and excuse the sloppy thinking and active harm it causes.  i find it hard to convince my mother than medicine is there to help you since the information she&#039;s gleaned in her life from environmental, protest groups, various hippies and homeopaths comes forefront and is not combatted enough in the media and by law.</p>
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