THE Crystal Cauldron pagan group was having a ball – until the Catholic Church threw a spanner in the works.
High Priestess Sandra Davis, left, and members of her coven
The group, headed by High Priestess Sandra Davis, had booked Our Lady’s Social Club in Shaw Heath, Stockport for the Crystal Cauldron’s Annual Witches’ Ball – but when she rang to make payment arrangements she was told the event could not be held there.
Despite the fact that the group had already printed tickets, another venue now has to be found.
According to the Telegraph, the Diocese of Shrewsbury have since confirmed witches are:
Not compatible with the Catholic ethos.
An outraged Davis, 61, said:
I’m appalled. My congregation is shocked that in this day and age there can be such religious discrimination. We’re normal people who follow an earth-based religion and want to enjoy ourselves.
We thought we were bridging the gap with other religions but misconceptions still exist, like we sacrifice animals. Does the church check everyone’s beliefs before allowing them in the club?
Now we need another venue for at least 100 people with a stage for entertainment. At this point that’s going to be very difficult.
Davis, of Bridge Hall, set up the Crystal Cauldron as a pagan meeting place and hopes to turn it into a temple.
This year’s ball was planned for October and Sandra agreed to hire the social club for £175.
But a joyless Reverend John Joyce, from the Diocese of Shrewsbury, said there was no way the event could go ahead.
Parish centres under our auspices let their premises on the understanding users and their organisations are compatible with the ethos and teachings of the Catholic church. In this instance, we aren’t satisfied such requirements are met.
Perhaps the local chapter of Kiddy Fiddlers Anonymous will have better luck booking the hall for their annual knees-up.
HAT TIP: Paul Edmonson
Pot-kettle-black, or should that be cauldron? Catholics have tortured and murdered thousands of women accused of witchcraft, but now it is illegal, the catholics are finding insidious methods to persecute yet again.
I have sent them an official invite from Landover Baptist Church.
I'm sure we can make a basement available.
A Pastor will be on hand with a Hose to give them all a friendly Mass baptism and I'm sure our Freehold Security Department will be on hand to make sure we don't get a "runner".
With our annual Wiccan hunt coming up soon I'm certain we can use some of the stronger one's.
Exodus18 Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.
Deuteronomy 10 & 11:
There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch.
Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.
I obviously have a bit more compassion to pagans, since I'm marrying one! To hear Catholic priests are hostile towards harmless old hippies and would happily cover up peadophiles should be a suprise to nobody.
A lot of churches get hostile toward yoga classes to!
So a group of amiable eccentrics who are into magic, dangly jewellery and colourful robes are obnoxious to the Roman Catholic Church? My irony meter has exploded – again.
Perhaps the witches should try to be a bit more unpleasant, especially to little kids – then they'll get the respect due to a proper religion.
Witches are fun. So it's not surprising.
Yes. I know a lot of readers are going to find this difficult to believe, but when I was receiving treatment for depression, and yoga was suggested as a means of aiding in relaxation, my Plymouth Brethren "friends" (who were largely responsible for the state that I was in, in the first place!) strictly forbad it : it`s "of the Devil"!!
My mum runs yoga classes, she's got friends on the British Yoga Wheel who've run into problems regarding church halls to! They have got their priorities in a complete twist.
It`s because of its Oriental origins, and in particular its association with Hinduism and Buddhism (both ways of thinking that have caused much less harm over the centuries than Christianity has!). They are also opposed to any forms of "meditation", as nature abhors a vacuum, so if you "empty" your mind then you leave it open for the nearest evil spirit to pop in (I`m not joking!!).
There`s a quote from Benny Hinn somewhere on the net, and although I don`t have a reference I do know that it is exactly what he and his Charismatic chums believe: "Do you know that every unbeliever is filled with a demon spirit?" You can hear more of his "wisdom", and of course receive much useful spiritual guidance from Pat Robertson and others, on the appalling God TV, if you are "privileged" to be able to receive it!!
Just gonna point out basic rights for a moment, the church was NOT a public venue, they have the RIGHT to deny anyone they want to, it's their property to do with as they please. I honestly don't give a shit, I think Wiccans are just as full of shit as Catholics. And why in the FUCK would a Wiccan group want to hold a celebration in a church that believes in their condemnation anyway? Just to stir shit? Yes, the Catholic church is full of dicks, that's undeniable, but they still have the right to say NO.
Sorry Wiccans, you're gonna have to find another venue for your made-up hippy religion.
I do agree with you about Witches, Kobachan, but they were only asking to hire the Social Club for their gathering, so they would not actually have been meeting in a religious building, and why on earth would the Catholics object to their hall being used for a primarily social event? Furthermore, churches do not pay Council Tax (I wonder how many people realize this!), so you would think that they would feel some obligation to give something back to the community, wouldn`t you?
Catholicism isn't compatible with humanity.
You have a right to stick your head down a toilet, it doesn't mean you should.
I wonder why they said that the witches could have the hall to begin with and then changed their minds at, it would appear, short notice? It is plausable, I suppose that some lay person hired out the hall and then Rev. Joyce got to hear of it and put his oar in but I would have thought that anyone with any sense would have checked that it was OK with the Rev. before renting the hall out to a bunch of witches.
Interestingly, I used to be involved with karate clubs which seem to have a long tradition of training in church halls, martial arts it would seem are OK with the prince of peace. Actually the name of the "Wado Ryu" school of Karate means Way of peace, the theory being that you get your peace by everyone leaving you alone because they know that you could beat the crap out of them if you wanted to.
I never said they SHOULD be assholes, I'm just saying they have the right to be.
Arn't the minds of these religiots already empty?
Godless Not Gormless
In response to point 1 – Spoing!!!
In response to point 2 – You'd think so but I bet the catholics would just get upset about the competition for little boy's bums
Maybe the catholics are just a bit embarrassed because they stole many of the pagan's festivals way back and are actually following thinly disguised pagan beliefs anyway. Maybe they think the pagans will use the meeting as a springboard to launch a campaign to demand them back. They might occupy the hall until the church gives in.
i was thinking the same thing. Christianity is just paganism repackaged.
wow, ignorant.
witch in the exodus 18 section is actually mistranslated from POISONER.
as to the Deuteronomy section….let me ask you…
shouldn't you be…
killing anyone with a different religion?
If anyone, even your own family suggests worshiping another God, kill them.
If you find out a city worships a different god, destroy the city and kill all of it's inhabitants… even the animals.
heck if we get to do the things in the old testament why not go back to Leviticus (or as i liked to call it, 1001 reasons to stone your neighbor and his sheep).
Don't let cattle graze with other kinds of Cattle
Don't have a variety of crops on the same field.
Don't wear clothes made of more than one fabric
Don't cut your hair nor shave. (oops someone should talk to paul about the 'against nature' claim of his…oh and talk to jesus)
Any person who curseth his mother or father, must be killed.
If a man cheats on his wife, or vise versa, both the man and the woman must die.
If a man sleeps with his father's wife… both him and his father's wife is to be put to death.
If a man sleeps with his wife and her mother they are all to be burnt to death.
If a man or woman has sex with an animal, both human and animal must be killed.
If a man has sex with a woman on her period, they are both to be "cut off from their people"
etc etc etc. the crazy runs deep here.
Why would Wiccans (worshippers of Alan) want to meet in a place owned by Catholics, given the Church's less then cozy attitute towards witches in the past? They're clearly a lot more forgiving than the Christians. Well, either that or they're very desperate for a place to meet!
Arthur – Relax – Check out the landover site!
It`s not the Middle Ages, Robert. Oops! The Roman Catholics think it still is!!
The problem is that christians get planning permission for these things on the promise that it's available for the community to use. If it's not their planning application was invalid.
Still, they follow a book which advocates ignoring planning legislation. What was it, "The world was without form and void"?
As I said above, they don`t have to pay Council Tax on religious buildings, on the strict understanding that the general public are welcome to services (and I`ve often wondered how the Jehovah`s Witnesses fare in this respect!), but that may not apply in the case of this building. Does anyone know the legal position re church halls?
Well as a pagan myself I have to say it's a tad embarassing seeing 'witches' pull out the 'religious persecution' card, then again it takes all sorts I suppose and I suspect the story had to have a slant to make it 'newsworthy'.
I personally wouldn't have even contemplated using a church hall in the first place for the very obvious reasons, though as some have mentioned these tax exempt venues ought to be available to all members of the local community regardless. So in conclusion it's a bit of a non story really, there is a lot of humour in paganism, especially where xtians are concerned so I'd take this story with a large pinch of salt and a sly wink!
Can I just say that this article has gone completely haywire.
Firstly I did not know that the Flint Street Social Club belonged to the Catholic Church until I telephoned them to see if I could hire the room.
When he answered the telephone he answered with 'Our Lady's' and that made me ask the questionI heard you call this Our Lady's does this mean that you are connected to the Catholic Church and he said we are connected but this is a totally independant business.
With this I explained who and what I was and why I wanted to book the room and that I didnt want to compromise him in any way.
He then said the room was available the date I required and that it did not matter what I used the room for once I had hired it. He gave me seven days to take down the £175.00 room charge.
He was a very helpful person.He said he was embarassed at having to tell me the decision and that he had tried to explain that I had been totally upfront with him but that the outcome was 'they don't want you here'.
I am surprised that it has caused such a wide spread interest and all the attentionbut it has.
If I had know it was run by a Catholic ChurchI most certainly would not have attempted to book the room.
All I wanted was a nice room to have the 'Witch's Ball'. Which I have now achieved and booked.
It was suposed to be just a funny little incident which has been taken out of context by the press (as usual) it was not intended to humiliate or disrespect any other relgious belief and especially to affect Paganism in an adverse way.
I think we should be ALL be left alone to follow which path we want without retribution or descrimination.
Also may I add we are not Wiccan we are Traditional Witches following the Well Worn path pre-christianity