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DESPITE the fact that there is not one shred of credible evidence in the whole history of humankind that prayer to a supernatural entity has ever been answered, many religious nutjobs persist with this utterly pointless practice.

Which would be OK – if only innocent parties, generally children, weren’t harmed by such idiocy.

But they are – and fatally, as two new cases in the US have proved.

The first involves a Wisconsin man who is on trial for killing his 11-year-old daughter by praying instead of seeking lifesaving medical help for her. Dale Neumann, 47, a “full-Gospel Christian,” considered Madeline’s illness “a test of his faith”, a prosecutor told jurors Saturday.

Dale and

Dale and Leilani Neumann

But his defence attorney insists that Neuman did not know that the girl had diabetes, and said that there’s not “a shred of evidence” that Neumann knew his prayers would fail to help his daughter or cause her death.

Neumann is charged with second-degree reckless homicide following the death in 2008 death of his daughter, also known as Kara by her parents. His wife, Leilani, was convicted of the same charge this spring and faces up to 25 years in prison when she is sentenced on October 6.

The girl died from undiagnosed diabetes on March 23, 2008, surrounded by people praying at the family’s rural home in Weston in central Wisconsin. Someone called 911 when she stopped breathing.

Prosecutors contend Neumann recklessly killed the youngest of his four children by ignoring her deteriorating health. They claim the girl was too weak to speak, eat, drink or walk and Neumann had a legal duty to take her to a doctor.

Marathon County Assistant District Attorney Lance Leonhard said:

This case is not about parents having the right to raise their children as they see fit or the right to pray. This case is about Madeline Kara Neumann’s needless suffering and death … They depended solely on God to heal her.

Dale Neumann told a Bible study friend he considered his daughter’s illness “a test of his faith,” Leonhard said.

No one can survive untreated diabetes, but medical statistics show 998 out of 1,000 people in the same stage of illness as Kara can be successfully treated with fluids and insulin, he added.

Defence attorney Jay Kronenwetter said:

Dale Neumann solicited the help of numerous individuals to pray. He did that because of his faith, because he believed that was what would save his daughter.

The Worthingtons pictured in court

The Worthingtons pictured in court

Meanwhile, an Oregon jury last Thursday convicted a father of misdemeanor criminal mistreatment for relying on prayer instead of seeking medical care for his 15-month-old daughter Ava, who died of pneumonia and a blood infection in March 2008. The father and mother were acquitted of a more serious manslaughter charge. according to this report.

The jury convicted the father, Carl Brent Worthington, of criminal mistreatment, a misdemeanor carrying a maximum sentence of a year in jail. The mother, Raylene Worthington, was acquitted of having any involvement in  the death of their daughter. During the trial, the defence made a point of noting that in families of the Worthingtons’ church, the Followers of Christ, husbands make all important decisions.

Both had faced manslaughter charges, which could have carried a sentence of up to six years in prison. The mother also was acquitted of criminal mistreatment.

The prosecution said Ava Worthington failed to flourish through most of her life because of a cyst on her neck that impeded her breathing and eating, contributing to her fatal pneumonia. She died on a Sunday evening after family and church members prayed over her and anointed her with olive oil.

The state medical examiner said she could easily have been saved with antibiotics.

The Followers of Christ shuns conventional medicine in favour of faith healing. The church has been in Oregon City since early in the 20th century. Its members, by their own description and that of others, keep to themselves.

The trial was the first under a 10-year-old Oregon law that bars legal defences based on religious practices in most abuse cases. The law was a response to previous deaths among young members of the Followers of Christ.

Worthington will be sentenced on July 31.

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16 Responses to “Prayer? It’s like talking to a brick wall – but try telling that to deluded Christians!”

  1. My mother was a DEVOTE christian. She believed most of the BS they shovel up their asses.
    BUT she always took us to Doctors when sick she never tried to PRAY us well.
    I still think a proper 'jugement' is NOT prison time. Inject all 4 with a VERY slow acting poison that is VERY painful, then put the antidote in a locked box out of reach but in plain sight and then tell them to PRAY themselves well!
    Bet they scream bloody murder for a Doc!!!! Bloody hypocrites!!!!
    If they pray & Pray but still die then they were faithful and we did them a great favor to allow them to go to their gOd.

  2. When you add ignorance, superstition and a readiness to accept the authority of priests you are in trouble. Today, I met a man whining away about the terrible results of morality in the UK because people forgotten their humanity. There he was, bible in hand, crowd of about 7 or 8 and then he says, "This is the result of the evils of Darwin and Richard Dawkins preaching against God and saying that we evolved." (It always seems to come to Dawkins for ruining the morals of the country,)

    I says, "This is nonsense. 98.4 per cent of human DNA are identical with chimpanzees. We are closer to chimps than they are to gorillas." He went crazy. Absolutely beserk. Never seen a performance like it as he wound himself into a frenzy. Accused me of calling him a "monkey"; I had caused Jesus to die in vain, blood of the lamb. I came close to being brained by his bible. So much for being calm and discussing issues.

  3. Do a bit of research on a miracle healer called Morris Cerullo if you have the stomach. Some years ago, the odious filthy rich* evangelist told a woman with epilepsy that her prayers had been answered and Gahhhd had cured her. She stopped taking her medication and drowned in the bath during a fit.

    * Although last I heard, the IRS were after him for grand-scale tax evasion.

  4. After having been brought up as an atheist and having many friends that are christians(when it suits them mainly) and being an avid reader of free thinker and having reached the age of nearly 70 I'm convinced that unless you have parents with enough brains to bring you up to see through all religeous nonsense you are wasting your time trying to convince people of their stupidity, all you can do is laugh at them and ignore them, but you wont change them I'm afraid, but you must fight them when they try and enforce their nonsence through the laws of your country.

  5. These are the tools who, when the police came to the house, told them that they thought the girl "could still be resurrected."

    Could someone remind me what century it is we're living in?

    And does this statement from the defence attorney make anyone ele's flesh creep:

    Stuart — wasn't he splashed all over posters in the UK a couple of years ago? Obviously had decided he didn't have quite enough gullible saps under his belt…always one more Rolls Royce to buy…
    "Dale Neumann solicited the help of numerous individuals to pray. He did that because of his faith, because he believed that was what would save his daughter."?

    So that's OK then—as long as it's what you believe, you can get away with anything.

  6. Could someone remind me what century it is we're living in?

  7. The politics of less education and more mass media in order to win elections is showing its side effects.

    It is always the kids who suffer.

  8. No need for cruelty… I guess. I hope.

    It is true however that many believers who become seriously ill suddenly accept all kinds of treatments, some of which might even be considered idolatry by their fellow believers.

  9. Yes Tim – see my reply to Stuart. He had a "crusade" here. My friend had an old schoolfriend living in London who was cruelly crippled by rheumatoid arthritis from her early teens (she has since died, only in her fifties), and she was sure that he was going to cure her! I can't really find the words to express my utter contempt for such brazen liars, conmen and crooks!!

  10. I know I'm a bit of a "speed-reader", so I do miss out on detail occasionally, but I'm shocked that none of them seem to have come up with the defence: "Just think how much more the kid would have suffered WITHOUT this prayerful intercession!" This is just the sort of "positive spin" that the fundamentalists with whom I used to associate would have put on the situation – you can NEVER say that God has failed!!

  11. Prosperity Gospel again! (See my comments on the previous topic re Tony Alamo.) Cerullo had a campaign in England not so long ago, but was later forced to resign from the Evangelical Alliance when found guilty by the ASA of making several false claims. He was actually expelled from India during a "crusade" there, and declared persona non grata in the country!! Look him up on the net as Stuart syas – and three guesses who it is who experiences all that "prosperity"?

  12. It took me years to escape from the clutches of the Plymouth Brethren, suffering a nervous breakdown on the way. The leading local family (it always works that way), who were predominantly responsible for my mental state, actually offered to pay for me to see an eminent homoeopath, in whom they had great faith! (I refused.) As a consequence of all this, I am the one who is considered weak-minded, and it came as no shock to me recently when relating my experiences over at the BEattitude to find one of their sort making the cheap jibe: "So, you're crazy?" That's about their level. "Believers" would be absolutely ashamed if they had to admit to having "mental problems" like depression, and I know from personal experience that a great many evangelical Christians just suffer in silence. What makes it all worse for them is this constant exposure to "teaching" that holds up a sort of "ideal" Christian life, which none of them actually experiences (except the totally mad amongst them – of which there are a good few).

  13. Cont: They "came to Christ" because they felt inadequate to deal with the pressures of life, and now these feelings of inadequacy are being reinforced because they are unable to experience the "joy unspeakable and full of glory" of which the Bible and chorus books speak so enticingly, and which preachers weekly assure them is the norm for faithful believers! It's all terribly sad really, and look what it has led to in these cases!!

  14. Surely "deluded Christians" is a tautology?

  15. Religion – you gotta hate it.

  16. http://www.johannhari.com/arch.....id=…

    This is an equally hilarious and infuriating portrait of Currello (sic) and his 2006 tour in the UK.