THE Church of Latter Day Saints is experiencing a spot of bother in the US over its shameful involvement in California’s anti-gay Proposition 8.
Realising last month that few members outside this exceedingly well-heeled cult had the foggiest idea of what Mormons actually believed, I did some research for the August print edition of the Freethinker – and, since publication, a number of readers have urged me post the piece on this site so that it might be seen by a wider audience.
So here it is:
Until last year, I regarded the Mormons as one of the world’s most comical cults. I mean, magical underwear, what’s that all about? If you don’t know, let me offer help:Â the white tops and passion-killer bloomers for men and women pictured here are called “temple garments” which primarily provide wearers with “a constant reminder” of the covenants made in temples.
Second, the garment “provides protection against temptation and evil”. Finally, wearing the garment is “an outward expression of an inward commitment” to follow Jesus Christ. The garments also:
Strengthen the wearer to resist temptation, fend off evil influences, and stand firmly for the right.
Researchers who interviewed a sample group of Latter-day Saints who wear lucky pants reported that virtually all expressed a belief that they provided “spiritual protection”, and encouraged them to keep their covenants. Some of those interviewed “asserted that the garment also provided physical protection”. In Mormon folklore, tales are told of Mormons who credit their temple garments with helping them survive car wrecks, fires, and various other disasters.
I ceased regarding Mormons as amusing in 2008 when the Church suddenly decided to pour millions of dollars into Proposition 8, which overturned the rights of gays in California to marry. And, boy, did they have millions to spend. Time magazine recently estimated that the Church’s current assets total a minimum of $30 billion.
Last year $5.2 billion in tithes flowed into its headquarters in Salt Lake City, $4.9 billion of which came from American Mormons, of which there are around six million. Mormons worldwide total around 13 million. The LDS sends out over 50,000 missionaries who annually entice over 240,000 people into the cult.
So what do the Mormons actually believe?
Mormonism, concocted by Joseph Smith in 1830, teaches that God – or “Elohim” – used to be a man on another planet, and that he became a god by following the laws and ordinances of a god on his home planet (not specified). In his present god-state, he rules our world. He has a body of flesh and bones and he has a wife. In their exalted positions as deities, it follows that Mr and Mrs Elohim must be at it like knives to spawn millions of spirit children that grow and mature in the spiritual realm before being propelled to earth.
The first spirit born to the Elohims was Jesus. Later came Lucifer and an assortment of “spirit creatures”. After spirit children are born to God and his missus, the little spooks come down and enter the bodies of human babies born on earth. During this “compression” into the infant state, the memories of their pre-existence as spirits are “veiled”. All people, according to Mormonism, are born in heaven first then repeat the whole tedious process on earth where they grow, learn, then return to God.
God the Father was concerned for the future salvation of the people on Earth. So he devised a plan for Earth’s salvation. In his plan there needed to be a saviour – and Jesus, a useless sort of Prince of Wales figure who was aimlessly wandering around heaven with nothing better to do than perhaps chat up trees and endorse homoeopathy, was selected by He Who Must Be Obeyed to be reborn on Earth to Mary.
Jesus gave the old boy’s plan an enthusiastic thumbs-up. A job at last! Lucifer did not. He became jealous and rebelled. In his rebellion he convinced a large proportion of the spirits existing in heaven to side with him and oppose God. God, being more powerful then they, cursed these rebellious spirits and turned them into demons.
The remaining spirits sided with God. Since they chose “the better way”, when the time came for them to live on earth, they had the privilege of being born in locations of their choice. They could even choose their race.
Brigham Young, the second “prophet” of the Mormon Church, explained that instead of letting any old riff-raff diddle Mary, God came along to do it in person.
Now I may have this wrong, but if , as Mormons imply, Mary was an offspring of God, she must have been Jesus’s sister. Anyway, after his birth, Jesus grew up, got married, and had children.
All Mormons have the potential of becoming gods. A famous Mormon saying is As God once was, man is. As God is, man may become. In order to reach this exalted state a person must first become a good Mormon and pay a full ten percent tithe to the LDS. Afterwards, he or she can enter a Mormon temple and learn secret rituals: baptism for the dead, celestial marriage, and various oaths of secrecy and commitment. Additionally, four secret handshakes are taught so that the believing Mormon, upon arriving at the gates of the third level of Mormon heaven, can shake hands with God in the prescribed manner, and be granted entrance.
For those who achieve this highest of heavens, “exaltation to godhood awaits them”. They will then be assigned their own planets and be gods of their worlds. Thus Mormonism will be expanded throughout the cosmos.
It beggars belief that people can fall for this fantastic garbage – but then again, consider how many people are duped each year by Scientology, a confused cocktail of crackpot, dangerously applied psychotherapy, oversimplified, idiotic and inapplicable rules and ideas, and science-fiction drivel which is presented to its members (at the “advanced” levels) as profound spiritual truth.
The Freethinker was founded in 1881 by GW Foote, an outspoken critic of religion. After the publication of 
August 17th, 2009 at 9:06 am
I used to think that Moronism was just another nutjob religion. Thanks for clearing up that misunderstanding.
August 17th, 2009 at 11:23 am
Why – do you think it makes sense now, remigius?
August 17th, 2009 at 11:25 am
Thanks for the information! Any idea where I can get a set of mormon-super-underwear that makes me bullet-proof, able to fly etc?
August 17th, 2009 at 11:39 am
Aye. A space alien with a deadbeat son wants us to wear magic knickers so we can become gods.
Kinda obvious really, when you think about it.
August 17th, 2009 at 12:11 pm
So $5.2 billion in tithes, $30 billion in assets and the church of Loonies, Dimwits and Suckers sends out over 50,000 missionaries who annually entice another 240 000 people into the cult. Sounds like a classic pyramid selling scam if you ask me! It is very dangerous to have that amount of money because as we all know, you can buy/bribe your way into government. And of course they get tax concessions because they are a “church”
August 17th, 2009 at 12:16 pm
Thank j'sus we don't all believe in that garbage… much better to believe in the obvious which is that an omnipotent gods son was sent to earth to be a carpenter only to find out that 'savior of the world' was his true calling and saved humanity by being nailed to a wooden cross…that makes much more sense to me! no?
August 17th, 2009 at 12:44 pm
I feel compelled to share this:
http://mormonsexposed.com/
What can one say?
August 17th, 2009 at 12:45 pm
Church of LDS – so that would have been formed by a bunch of dyslexic hippies then?
August 17th, 2009 at 1:38 pm
Evidently they are rather strict now about not allowing the sale of their magic underwear to "non-Saints" (ie you and me), and even e-Bay have a policy of not allowing their sale. I think this has more to do with the (obviously quite unfounded) fear of ridicule than a desire to preserve the protection afforded for the "Saints of God" alone!
(If you google "Mormon undergarments" more information comes up than you would believe possible. Sadly though, as we have found on this blog too just recently, some people are not able to treat the subject with the seriousness nor the respect that it deserves!!)
August 17th, 2009 at 1:45 pm
It is hilarious that the angel that appeared to Smith was called Moroni.
August 17th, 2009 at 2:42 pm
We did have a look at the "Mormon Beefcake" calendars on this site on 29th April, Ivan, when Barry reported that the guy responsible for them was in deep trouble with the Elders, and was likely to have his Mormon degree revoked! Still, this looks like a new calendar for 2010, so it's good to see that the project is still up and running. I posted several links previously, which I won't repeat, save for one which is just too funny for words!!
http://nicejewishguys.net/
Naturally, the "nice Jewish guys" pose in cardigans similar to those which we were looking at the other day, and tell us, in a manner reminiscent of those awful "lonely heart "ads that they love their mums, spend all their spare time sorting their stamp collections, and like apple pie and ice cream!!!
August 17th, 2009 at 2:50 pm
Having raised in the mormon church, I can confirm that you're pretty much spot on in your "Mormonism for Dummies" post, except for the Mary as offspring of God paragraph. As far as I was taught in the church, Mary was conceived and born like anyone else, except that she is regarded as being one of the "great" spirits before she was born. Keep up the good work!
August 17th, 2009 at 2:51 pm
http://www.guardian.co.uk/worl.....a.j…
Up to 1,000 teenage boys have been separated from their parents and thrown out of their communities by a polygamous sect to make more young women available for older men, Utah officials claim…..
August 17th, 2009 at 3:45 pm
Mormins/lds aren't the ones who are polygamist, its a different church but people just believe it to be them
August 17th, 2009 at 4:47 pm
Well, that's me on the naughty step for the next 24 hours. And I thought my research had been meticulous. Damn!
August 17th, 2009 at 4:49 pm
You know, I'm as far from becoming a Mormon as could possibly be—but I am not impressed by your argument against the LDS faith, which is nothing more than "argument by sneer." Anyone can use ridicule to make a point, but it is the basest way to do so. It's a childish schoolyard tactic.
If you really want to keep this approach, it would be better to use satire or parody—something that requires you to actually engage your brain. Simple disrespect won't influence anyone who is not already on your side. Alternatively, you could take a more dispassionate approach and point out what specific things you find disagreeable or illogical, and why. Hey, I'll start:
OK, it's actually hard to start. There's so much to choose from. Here's something:
Joseph Smith claims to have found the Book of Mormon on some golden plates, written in an unknown language. He used some rocks to translate it. Now the plates are mysteriously lost. I cannot give even a moment's credence to a religion that absolutely depends on a revelation that cannot be verified as existing anywhere outside of the reveal-ee's mind.
Now you try.
August 17th, 2009 at 4:51 pm
Kind of strange being told that my underwear is “funny” by a culture that considers shoving a strip of fabric up your butt “sexy.”
Hollywood fantasies aside, have you ever stopped to think how most people look in their underwear?
Truth be told, most all of you look pretty stupid.
August 17th, 2009 at 4:59 pm
Atheism:
The ironic and self-defeating orderly appeal to reason for the existence of a reasonless universe without order, whose purpose is to evidence that there is no purpose, and whose morality is to argue that we should teach that there are no morals except that which they have reasoned for their purpose, which, in turn, produces the ultimate emotional articulation of self-centeredness which is fearfully bent towards the cover-up and suppression of belief in an ultimate personal cause who brings order, purpose and judgment to all things.
Oh yeah… I’m in.
August 17th, 2009 at 5:33 pm
Gosh Barrie, what that site lacks in raunchiness (and prepuces) it more than makes up in fashion faux pas, spectacles and truly terrible haircuts. And seeing's we're back on cardies, check out:
http://www.deanmorriscards.co......s-1…
and click on the "fabulous" link.
August 17th, 2009 at 6:15 pm
Yes – but I've never claimed that my underwear has saved my life!
August 17th, 2009 at 6:25 pm
So Mormonism is just Victorian Scientology. Indeed, I wonder if Lafayette Ron Hubbard knew about it when he decided to create his own money-spinning cult? Anyone know what happens when Scientologist meets Mormon? And has there been a stream of converts from one to the other?
Seth R, the universe has order, otherwise science would not be able to fathom out anything about nature. As for atheists being self-centered, I wonder who is wealthier – Dr Richard Dawkins, or the leaders of the LDS? I'm banking on the Lord High Mormons being very rich indeed. What do they need earthly riches for, Seth?
Also, isn't it a tad self-centered to look to your own salvation first, then worry about others? Why don't the religious do it the other way around? Indeed, wouldn't it be truly moral to act in such a way as to lose your own place in heaven so as to get lots of other people in? I've always wondered why no believer thinks like that. I suspect that selfishness is the reason, but I'm no theologian.
August 17th, 2009 at 6:33 pm
I'm not quite sure what you're talking about here, Gingko100. All that Barry has done is to outline the beliefs of Mormons, which many people are not aware of. The story of the angel and the gold plates is pretty widely known, and as you so rightly say, palpable nonsense. I don't think that many visitors to this site are on the verge of conversion to the Mormon faith, for much the same reasons as you outline above, but it IS interesting to know what other garbage these idiots are prepared to swallow!
August 17th, 2009 at 8:10 pm
Mormonism is popular because it has a better theology.
Instead of some narcissistic, all-powerful being, who conjured you out of nothing and is now demanding subservient adoration or an eternity of torture, we speak of a literal father who calls us to step up and be gods ourselves.
We posit an eternal universe that works in harmony with the laws of science rather than in conflict with them (creationism has never been a controversy in Utah like it has been elsewhere). We speak of secular knowledge as crucial to spiritual advancement rather than in conflict with it.
We speak of human identity and relationships as enduring rather than being annihilated (either in the atheist’s “you are dirt” sense, or in the traditional Christian let’s-all-assimilate-into-the-cosmic-blob-known-as-God sense). We see humanity as an ultimate forward journey, not a retrogression. We actually view humanity as essentially good – unlike much of Christianity.
And we keep a rich ritual and symbological life – in an era when people are so spiritually shallow that anything not spelled out for them in third-grade language must automatically be “creepy” and “scary.”
And, in spite of a lot of the temporary organizational hang-ups that we go through, this church still offers a lot of tangible benefits that have made it worth my time to be a part of.
And if you think I want to trade all that in for a cool goatee and a community of narcissistic, cynical, contemptuous, unfriendly little jackasses, like the one I’m seeing here, you’ve got another thing coming.
But there’s always hope. Maybe in a few years, I too will have become “cool” enough to make junior high jokes about underwear too.
I can hardly wait for the forthcoming “enlightenment” in store.
August 17th, 2009 at 8:18 pm
Yeah…whatever!
August 17th, 2009 at 8:29 pm
I Googled "mormon population statistics" and all sites agreed that the Mormon cult indeed claims 13 million members. One site declared the true figure to be between one-third and one-half that figure. Another reported that, "While some 13 million members are on the membership rolls, the actual number of people who consider themsellves Mormon is considerably less…. about two-thirds of the church members are inactive." What that means is that there are really no more than 3 million Mormons. Once a name has been added to the membership roll, it stays there forever with reckless disregard for whether an individual abandoned the cult or simply stopped actively believing in it. The Catholic and Scientology cults follow the same practice, and consequently claim from 100 percent to over 1000 percent more adherents than they really have.
August 17th, 2009 at 8:33 pm
You can "posit" anything you like, but if it's all made up then it's pure bollocks!
August 17th, 2009 at 8:50 pm
For the benefit of Mormons posting reasons for believing what they believe, let me ask if they are aware that Joseph Smith plagiarized The Book of Mormon from a historical novel written by Solomon Spaulding? Do Mormons seriously believe that a religion invented by a liar, plagiarist, and compulsive collector of child brides, can have any legitimacy whatsoever? If they believe that, they should consider becoming Scientologists, the most blatantly self-serving, fraudulent pseudoreligion ever concocted.
For the facts, see Joseph Smith and the Origins of the Book of Mormon, by D. Persuite; Trouble Enough: Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon, by E.H. Taves; and No Man Knows My History: The Life of Joseph Smith, by Fawn Brodie.
August 17th, 2009 at 8:52 pm
It gets even better. If they need to change any of their doctrines for any reason ( they're tired of them, public pressure is unbearable or they've become financially untenable ) all that they need do is have one of their elders pull a "divine revelation" out of his backside. That's how the sacred doctrine of polygamy came and went and the policy prohibiting blacks in the priesthood fell by the wayside. And I'm sure you've heard of Lying for the Lord, whereby you're officially allowed to break the 9th Commandment so long as you can claim you're doing it to promote and/or defend The Faith.
August 17th, 2009 at 8:55 pm
Now, now, Seth. "Jackasses" is not a Morg approved word. Didn't you mean to tell us to go fetch ourselves or something?
August 17th, 2009 at 9:22 pm
No, I think “jackasses” is a pretty good word for it.
And barriejohn, even if it was “made-up” (which I disagree with), it can still be more useful than the intellectual brain-drain going on in this comment thread.
By the way Buffy, polygamy was never refuted as a DOCTRINE by the LDS Church. Only as a PRACTICE.
If a Mormon guy loses his first wife and she dies and he remarries – he gets to be sealed to BOTH in the hereafter. Two wives – for all eternity.
The doctrine is still alive and well. It’s even starting to be applied to women who have more than one husband. And I think that’s just great.
As for the priesthood ban on blacks… I don’t think that was ever even a “doctrine” to begin with.
August 17th, 2009 at 11:10 pm
Hey guys, do I get bonus points for having landed a real live Mormon, who's done a sterling job of confirming the comical characteristics of the LDS?
Seth clearly got hot under the gusset over the "magic pants" barbs, but curiously, in all the outraged verbiage he subsequently generated, nowhere did he address the issue that prompted me to pen the piece in the first place: Namely Proposition 8, and the LDS's disgraceful decision to bankroll this vile, homophobic initiative.
One can't help feeling that the term "jack-asses" could be far better applied to the LDS leaders who brought a major public relations disaster on their own heads than to those posting on this blog.
August 18th, 2009 at 12:43 am
Actually I opposed my Church’s stance on Prop 8 and couldn’t care less if you want to tear into them over THAT issue.
But making fun of a religion based on underwear?
It’s kind of hard to take atheism seriously when the best it’s followers can come up with is making fun of someone’s underwear. How old are you guys?
Twelve?
August 18th, 2009 at 12:54 am
If you are not a dummie, check out the only denomination based on First Century Christianity (not man-made Fourth Century Creeds):
http://MormonsAreChristian.blogspot.com
August 18th, 2009 at 3:21 am
Seth, that's hilarious! You really should consider a career in stand-up. Mormonism really is the comedy act of the religious world isn't it? (and that's really saying something). Human gods who live on other planets (which one?); magic underwear, golden plates with magic words that mysteriously disappear (so no one can refute their existence in the first place), spirits that get squashed into new born babies, men who get shackled to the same wives for ALL OF ETERNITY, it's a riot a minute. You better make sure you choose the right wives, or else, think of it, the SAME wives forever…
wow, I'm so impressed. Mormonism has everything for a right royal comedy act; what else have you got?
August 18th, 2009 at 3:52 am
Yeah, perish the thought of actually having to commit to a girl. Which one are you on now Callisto?
Girl/boy-friend number 14?
Disgusting how Mormons feel a need to actually give a damn about the people they sleep with, isn’t it? Screwed up set of priorities, I’d say.
And worshiping God, or worshiping yourself – which is more ridiculous?
August 18th, 2009 at 6:12 am
"But making fun of a religion based on underwear?"
A religion based on underwear deserves to made fun of.
August 18th, 2009 at 6:23 am
"…traditional Christian let's-all-assimilate-into-the-cosmic-blob-known-as-God sense." What are you talking about? Are you confusing Christianity with Buddhism?
Furthermore, if you really were above all the "…narcissistic, cynical, contemptuous, unfriendly little jackasses…" that you say you are seeing here, you wouldn't have opened your mouth and sounded exactly like what you just described.
August 18th, 2009 at 7:07 am
You know that's not what he meant, remigius!
August 18th, 2009 at 2:44 pm
I notice that the incurable Mormon chose to ignore Joseph Smith's plagiarism, in the hope that it would go away. Since Mormons accept the Bible as divine revelation, how do they explain its fourteen assertions that the earth is flat, to say nothing of a talking snake and a talking donkey?
August 18th, 2009 at 5:37 pm
How am I supposed to know what a Mormon means…they're all batshit crazy!
August 18th, 2009 at 8:00 pm
All this magic knickers stuff has me wondering – what if it was 'Bridget Jones' and and not 'Joseph Smith' who came up with the Mormon scam and they covered that one up too?
Hey, hey.. hear me out!
There's similarities in the books, and a fat girl who can't choose between two blokes makes as least as much sense as some 19th century nutter breeding his own wives.
August 19th, 2009 at 10:04 pm
Yes, these “garment” – provides protection against temptation and evil – are convincing me.
But you should have mentioned the moronic – ah, sorry, Mormon invention of STEPS IN OVERCOMING MASTURBATION!
That is so brilliant.
A Guide to Self-Control:
1. Never touch the intimate parts of your body except during normal toilet processes.
2. Avoid being alone as much as possible. Find good company and stay in this good company.
3. If you are associated with other persons having this same problem, YOU MUST BREAK OFF THEIR FRIENDSHIP. Never associate with other people having the same weakness. Don't suppose that two of you will quit together, you never will. You must get away from people of that kind. Just to be in their presence will keep your problem foremost in your mind. The problem must be taken OUT OF YOUR MIND for that is where it really exists. Your mind must be on other and more wholesome things.
4. When you bathe, do not admire yourself in a mirror. Never stay in the bath more than five or six minutes — just long enough to bathe and dry and dress AND THEN GET OUT OF THE BATHROOM into a room where you will have some member of your family present.
5. When in bed, if that is where you have your problem for the most part, dress yourself for the night so securely that you cannot easily touch your vital parts, and so that it would be difficult and time consuming for you to remove those clothes. By the time you started to remove protective clothing you would have sufficiently controlled your thinking that the temptation would leave you.
6. If the temptation seems overpowering while you are in bed, GET OUT OF BED AND GO INTO THE KITCHEN AND FIX YOURSELF A SNACK, even if it is in the middle of the night, and even if you are not hungry, and despite your fears of gaining weight. The purpose behind this suggestion is that you GET YOUR MIND ON SOMETHING ELSE. You are the subject of your thoughts, so to speak.
7. Never read pornographic material. Never read about your problem. Keep it out of mind. Remember — "First a thought, then an act."
The thought pattern must be changed. You must not allow this problem to remain in your mind. When you accomplish that, you soon will be free of the act.
8. Put wholesome thoughts into your mind at all times. Read good books — Church books — Scriptures — Sermons of the Brethern [sic, Cistern too?]. Make a daily habit of reading at least one chapter of Scripture, preferably from one of the four Gospels in the New Testament, or the Book of Mormon. The four Gospels — Matthew, Mark, Luke and John — above anything else in the Bible can be helpful because of their uplifting qualities.
9. Pray. But when you pray, don't pray about this problem, for that will tend to keep [it] in your mind more than ever. Pray for faith, pray for understanding of the Scriptures, pray for the Missionaries, the General Authorities, your friends, your families, BUT KEEP THE PROBLEM OUT OF YOUR MIND BY NOT MENTIONING IT EVER — NOT IN CONVERSATION WITH OTHERS, NOT IN YOUR PRAYERS. KEEP IT _OUT_ of your mind! The attitude of a person toward his problem has an affect on how easy it is to overcome. It is essential that a firm commitment be made to control the habit. As a person understands his reasons for the behavior, and is sensitive to the conditions or situations that may trigger a desire for the act, he develops the power to control it.
As one meets with his Priesthood Leader, a program for overcoming masturbation can be implemented using some of these suggestions. Remember it is essential that a regular report program be agreed on, so progress can be recognized and failures understood and eliminated.
(found at:
http://www.moonmac.com/Mormon_masturbation.html)
August 22nd, 2009 at 8:51 pm
Mormon teachings are readily available at http://lds.org , which is the website that members of the church use. It contains all of the scriptures, magazines, lesson manuals and major addresses given by church leaders. It is the definitive source of Mormon doctrine and practices.
The website http://mormon.org is primarily aimed at those investigating the church.
August 27th, 2009 at 9:31 am
I'm sure that you will all be delighted to learn that I have been up all night (in common with other artistic geniuses), putting the finishing touches to my new (and possibly unique!) Mormon musical Seven Brides For One Brother. There is a real show-stopping song, to be sung by Howard Keeloverlaughing, which goes like this:
Bless my Magical Pants,
Wherever they may be:
They haven't got a gusset in, So how am I gonna pee?
Bless my Magical Pants,
They'll help me find a wife;
And if my house should burn right down, They'll even save my life!
There is a full supporting cast, including chorus supplied by the Mormon Pumpernickel Choir.
Seats are priced in the following ranges; Very Expensive, Ludicrously Expensive, and You'll Never Believe This!
List of venues to follow shortly.
Best Wishes: Johnny Mercenary (Aged 12 – Proof on File).
(PS Is this "cynical and contemptuous" enough, Barry, or am I being a bit too deferential to these crackpots?)
October 13th, 2009 at 2:10 pm
i think your confusing that with catholics dear
October 13th, 2009 at 2:12 pm
doesnt that show your lack of understanding then?
November 9th, 2009 at 11:57 am
you will burn in hell forever!
November 9th, 2009 at 12:09 pm
Yeah, whatever!
December 5th, 2009 at 1:57 am
Four months ago, I started dating a woman who left the Mormon Church a decade earlier. Prior to this, my only exposure to the Church was a buddy who played football at BYU with Jim McMahon. He was an outstanding guy, so I had no reason to look any further. It was fine by me, since ignorance is always bliss.
After getting to know her better, I learned that she, three sisters, and cousins were molested by her grandfather, a High Mormon Priest. This was brought to the Church’s attention prior to passing, and despite being asked by the family to ex-communicate him, the Church refused. The buried him in his entire ceremonial garb.
This abuse and the lack of response by the Church has caused the women considerable duress into adulthood, leading to additional acts of abuse, self-loathing, sexual perversions, and mental illness.
So, as a man who left his childhood religion (Catholicism) for similar reasons, I prompted my girlfriend and her parents to again write the Church and President Monson to ask for a posthumous ex-communication.
Any religion who can ex-communicate a graduate of BYU (and take away his degree for creating a satirical calendar can certainly do the right thing when it comes to Child abuse, right?
Wrong! Due to the fact that my girlfriend is no longer on the Church’s roles, she received no response.
Her parents, who are still devout Mormons, claim to have received a letter claming that the Church can not ex-communicate the dead because they are in Heaven and not able to defend themselves on this earth.
Forget the fact that the Church believes in Baptizing the dead without their consent, or that they knew six months before his death what he did, with a full confession.
What am I missing here? I would appreciate a response from a believer, and ask whether or not you think the Church did the right thing here.
PS – That is my real name. I am not ashamed of reporting a true story.
December 10th, 2009 at 7:32 am
Greg,
The LDS Church has never been interested in the Truth…. It originated in untruth…. Dr. Seus and the Cat in the Hat… and the LDS Church and Ol’ Joe in the Hat.
Based on lies from the very begining.
Don’t expect anything from this basket of snakes.
December 10th, 2009 at 2:05 pm
OK!! Everubody this is false!! I am mormon anod first everything started on heaven with our heavenly father! He did a plan and so licifer and Jesus were spirits like us and so God the both of them who want to come to earth and pay and suffer for our sins so Lucifer said that he wanted to come but he wanted all the glory for him and jesus christ said that all the glory it was going tot be for our heavenly father! So Lucifer or satan wanted us as slaves! We wouldn’t have freedom because of him! So gOD send satan to earth and the 3rd part of the angels fallow him so those are the demonds!! then everyone that leaves on this earth, we accept to come to earth in order to back to our heavenly father but we have to do our part not everyone can come back only if you keep the commendments!! And then we believe in God, our eternal father and his son jesus christ and 5If any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to him.”ASK GOD” not anybody else..So thats what joseph smith did he went to a silent place close were he leaved and he started praying with all his heart and satan tried to get into his body but he couldn’t then he saw a ligth stranger than the sun ligth and God and Jesus Christ appared and God said HERE IS MY BELOVED SON…LISTEN TO HIM!!….
December 22nd, 2009 at 6:54 am
Who is running this site a 6 year old……making fun of underwear? Get a life losers.
February 8th, 2010 at 7:34 am
yeah, you hate mormons because you’re gay.
February 25th, 2010 at 11:13 pm
This is pretty ridiculous and juvenile, and anyone who has made any type of comment in support of it is just as ignorant as the poster himself. Southpark had an episode on Mormons that was more accurate than this. You have been outdone by Southpark, arguably one of the most ignorant, false, and politically incorrect shows on television. You should probably find a new job and get a life. Any anyone who puts Mormons and polygamists together in the same sneer is ALSO ignorant and needs to find some new material. Don’t try and make fun of things you don’t understand, especially if the reason you don’t understand is because you lack the intellectual capacity to see beyond yourselves. Pathetic.
March 15th, 2010 at 7:32 pm
I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS or Mormon), and would first like to say that we are not a cult, we are Christians. If we are a cult, then so is any other religion. Also, I agree with the last few comments, sadly Southpark was more accurate than most of the comments that were posted on this blog…. I would suggest that before anyone goes around giving/receiving misinformation, first go to the official LDS website (lds.org)to obtain accurate information about the doctrines that we really believe in, this is a reliable source. The website has all of the right information for any inquirer. Please go this link for more detailed/accurate info about the common misinterpretation of the lds doctrines: http://www.lds.org/ldsnewsroom.....n-doctrine.
Also, in case most of you (especially those that have probably heard or obtained a lot of false lds doctrine from other sources)were not aware, there is a REORGANIZED or FUNDAMENTALIST Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (RLDS or FLDS). They also call themselves Mormons, but this is not the same church as the LDS Church. Directly from the LDS website, “The most stable and largest of the post-martyrdom (Joseph Smith) break-offs is the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints”. Again, I wanted to clarify that the LDS church is not the same as the RLDS one, so please do not confuse the two. There are many things that the RLDS church does or believe in that the LDS church does not, such as the present practice of polygamy. For example, the HBO show Big Love depicts an RLDS family, not an LDS family! For more detailed information visit: http://www.lds.org/ldsnewsroom.....s-identity
So before you hear something about Mormons, please be aware that the information could be wrong or simply about the RLDS church.
May 18th, 2010 at 3:54 am
You may not believe in our Book of Mormon, our Priesthood authority, or our Temple Ordinances, I don’t expect you to. But please do not put my faith and church in a bad light. Yes we may have $30 billion in assets from the members, but we are not forced to pay tithing, it is a choice. With that money, we build temples, send out missionaries, feed families in poverty, and help when natural disasters occur. I am NOT asking you to believe in my God or Religion, I’m pleading with you to at least respect that we are good people only trying to do what is right.
June 6th, 2010 at 10:34 am
I notice that none of those defending mormonism have an answer for you Greg. They can criticise making fun of their underwear as juvenile, but they cannot answer your serious and very adult complaint. Similarly with the issue around homophobia.
The definition of a cult is an unorthodox or false religion. Mormons themselves claim to be christians, and yet the rest of the christian denominations, both protestant and catholic, claim that they are not christians, and for this reason, mormons converting to catholicism or protestantism, in whatever form, are required to be re-baptised, while the same is not true, for example, of protestants converting to protestantism, or vice versa. Mormons claim to believe the Bible, and yet there are aspects of their beliefs, contained in the book of mormon, which contradict the teachings of the Bible. For instance, mormons believe that marriage (when performed in a mormon church) lasts for ever, that is, beyond death, and yet Jesus quite clearly states in Mark 12 that there is no marriage in Heaven. The mormons claim that God is (as the christian church teaches) omnipotent and omniscient, and yet also claims that not only God the Father and Jesus but also the Holy Spirit can only be in one place at one time. They use the analogy of the sun to describe the Holy Spirit, claiming that although the sun is only in one place, its effects are seen everywhere. However, 1. sunlight is not everywhere – half of the world is in darkness at any one time and 2. if God is not everywhere, then how can he be all-knowing and all-powerful?
Lastly, I would like to ask: mormons believe that God the Father did not create space and time though he did create the earth. They say that God the Father made himslef God by worshipping his God. If that God WAS the person who created time and space, and had therefore been God forever, then why not worship him?
June 8th, 2010 at 9:56 am
Can’t you all see this is poppycock!! A religion born of a 14yr. old boy, in the woods, gathering gold plates btw would have weighed 300# under his cloak… Later to have taken child brides to have sex with…comon, what is this all about but same ole same ole bull…I don’t care how reformed they are it’s all about having sex with many women as they can…
June 10th, 2010 at 2:05 am
Nooo the definition of cult is any group whos beliefs are considered strange. No one can prove or disprove a religion is false….since it’s built on an imaginary figure God. I believe all religions are cults……
August 13th, 2010 at 9:09 pm
its funny how all you idiots base your opinions about an entire religion based on some quack jobs webpage. nice job america. nice job. oh btw i am mormon but im going to waste fifteen minutes defending my religion especially against people who don’t really care to know the truth about it.
August 25th, 2010 at 5:15 am
this is completely ridic i have been a member of the church for a year i to thought some things were a little crazy i joined because my boyfriend is an RM(a return missionary) and his whole family are mormons. i however was raised nazarene. you can’t always believe everything that is out there on the internet its not always true in order to truly grasp it you have to talk to the missionaries and actually go to church. that is the only way you will learn and ask questions anyone a local bishop, a missionary, even someone at your local church would be happy to answer questions you have. dont be afraid take investigator classes with the missionaries to learn about our doctrine heck everybody did think young joseph was smokin something when he went out into the sacred grove but he wasnt he received divine revelation and that is what our prophet today continues to do for us. everytime joseph prayed to god he would give him instructions such as for the finding of the golden plates and the urim and the thummim to translate them. i started going to the lds church in dec. of 2008 i was baptized in june of 2009 and here sometime soon i hope to be joined together forever in the temple with by boyfriend when we eventually make arrangements to get married. i could go on and on explaining things to you idiots about things like the baptisims for the dead, and the ordinances, and callings, etc. just go find out for yourself.
September 8th, 2010 at 3:02 pm
Barry, you’ve stated several times that no-one will answer the issue on proposition 8 (although 1 poster at least did), so I’ll chip with my thoughts.
The church believes in the bible as long as it is translated correctly, ie. some of the original translations were a bit off, eg. saying god hardened Pharo’s heart, when clearly Pharo hardened his own heart, stuff like that. So consequently you need to read the bible with a prayer in your heart that you will be able to discern the real meaning and intent of the ancient authors.
What the bible is clear on is that sexual relationships between people of the same (birth) gender are not acceptable to god. Hence the church’s support of Proposition 8.
You may feel this is wrong but at least the church is willing to stand up for it’s beliefs unlike many that once upon a time said homosexuality was wrong but have now changed their tune. Note that when I use the word homosexuality I’m including lesbians.
And for the record I’m not homophobic or anti-gay, I’m not afraid of homosexual people, neither do I dislike them. I have colleagues who are openly gay and I have no problem with them as people. Their sexual activity and preferences do not alarm or frighten me or make me uncomfortable, it’s their choice, and their consequences, just like all the rest of us.
Incidentally the church’s response to what it tends to call “Same-Sex Attraction” is far more nuanced and understanding than many conservative Christian fundamentalist churches in the southern states of America. I’m surprised your research didn’t lead you to any of the very clear statements made by senior church leaders about the “mormon” views of homosexuality. Or maybe you didn’t do much research.
Take this as you will but it’s meant in the spirit of honest open discussion.
October 6th, 2010 at 6:10 am
So John, tell me what are the consequences for being born homosexual…death, hell, pergatory…and no I am not homosexual. But really, what kind of deity would condem these people for what they have no control over being. And if you believe your religious convictions that a God created all mankind, didn’t he/she create these folks as well???