Comments on: US Catholics call on CBS to pull the plug on ‘vile’ Penn & Teller for ‘hate speech’ http://freethinker.co.uk/2009/08/19/us-catholics-call-on-cbs-to-pull-the-plug-on-%e2%80%98vile%e2%80%99-penn-teller-for-%e2%80%98hate-speech%e2%80%99/ The voice of atheism since 1881 Mon, 13 Feb 2012 09:36:37 +0000 hourly 1 By: Jennifer http://freethinker.co.uk/2009/08/19/us-catholics-call-on-cbs-to-pull-the-plug-on-%e2%80%98vile%e2%80%99-penn-teller-for-%e2%80%98hate-speech%e2%80%99/comment-page-1/#comment-20992 Jennifer Fri, 21 Aug 2009 19:47:23 +0000 http://freethinker.co.uk/?p=7968#comment-20992 Oh wow. I'm sorry. No wonder you hate religion so much. One last thing before I leave a place for good where I'm obviously not welcome. I showed some of my gay friends (shock! horror!) your responses and we all had a great laugh. Not at your expense...don't get me wrong, just at how willing people are to read into things and jump to conclusions without being fully informed. Good luck, please try to drop the hatred bit; it's not becoming for a "free thinker," atheist or no. Oh wow. I'm sorry. No wonder you hate religion so much. One last thing before I leave a place for good where I'm obviously not welcome. I showed some of my gay friends (shock! horror!) your responses and we all had a great laugh. Not at your expense…don't get me wrong, just at how willing people are to read into things and jump to conclusions without being fully informed. Good luck, please try to drop the hatred bit; it's not becoming for a "free thinker," atheist or no.

]]> By: shargraves http://freethinker.co.uk/2009/08/19/us-catholics-call-on-cbs-to-pull-the-plug-on-%e2%80%98vile%e2%80%99-penn-teller-for-%e2%80%98hate-speech%e2%80%99/comment-page-1/#comment-20990 shargraves Fri, 21 Aug 2009 19:38:29 +0000 http://freethinker.co.uk/?p=7968#comment-20990 <a href="http://www.redefinegod.com/video/penn-and-teller-call-bullshit" target="_blank">http://www.redefinegod.com/video/penn-and-teller-...</a> here you go. highly disturbing - I find the actions of this twisted crone sickening. The twisted pervert. http://www.redefinegod.com/vid.....er-…

here you go.

highly disturbing – I find the actions of this twisted crone sickening. The twisted pervert.

]]> By: barriejohn http://freethinker.co.uk/2009/08/19/us-catholics-call-on-cbs-to-pull-the-plug-on-%e2%80%98vile%e2%80%99-penn-teller-for-%e2%80%98hate-speech%e2%80%99/comment-page-1/#comment-20974 barriejohn Fri, 21 Aug 2009 12:35:57 +0000 http://freethinker.co.uk/?p=7968#comment-20974 I used to be one - that's how I know all about the bigotry and hatred which lies just beneath that thin veneer of "compassion" that the religious boast about so nauseatingly! I used to be one – that's how I know all about the bigotry and hatred which lies just beneath that thin veneer of "compassion" that the religious boast about so nauseatingly!

]]> By: Callisto http://freethinker.co.uk/2009/08/19/us-catholics-call-on-cbs-to-pull-the-plug-on-%e2%80%98vile%e2%80%99-penn-teller-for-%e2%80%98hate-speech%e2%80%99/comment-page-1/#comment-20956 Callisto Fri, 21 Aug 2009 03:21:12 +0000 http://freethinker.co.uk/?p=7968#comment-20956 If I'm so wrong, why did you run screaming from the RC church? I am not wrong. Like I said, study some history, not the RC version of history. Every crime known to humanity? the RC church committed it, and still commits crimes to this day. But of course, taking a look at history and learning the truth is something religious people never do, either through the fear of what they might find, or just that old, "I'm not listening!" cowardice. Yeah, the truth is really hard. If I'm so wrong, why did you run screaming from the RC church? I am not wrong. Like I said, study some history, not the RC version of history. Every crime known to humanity? the RC church committed it, and still commits crimes to this day. But of course, taking a look at history and learning the truth is something religious people never do, either through the fear of what they might find, or just that old, "I'm not listening!" cowardice. Yeah, the truth is really hard.

]]> By: repete66211 http://freethinker.co.uk/2009/08/19/us-catholics-call-on-cbs-to-pull-the-plug-on-%e2%80%98vile%e2%80%99-penn-teller-for-%e2%80%98hate-speech%e2%80%99/comment-page-1/#comment-20949 repete66211 Thu, 20 Aug 2009 23:01:20 +0000 http://freethinker.co.uk/?p=7968#comment-20949 Yes, "virtuous non-religious" person. :) I understand that the faith you have is a personal experience. I am atheist, but I am the kind that doesn't care if you are or aren't. It's really none of my business what you are as long as you're a decent person. And so as long as you (meaning anyone) don't shove my face in your religion or try to insert your religion into government then I have no problem with it at all. Much of the vitriol you see on sites like this one is a direct reaction to just such behavior perpetrated by religious people. There's a bit too much lumping going on. Rather than treat each person individually, many theists are lumped in with the worst sort of theist (and vice versa). Much of it is also in good fun, so try not to take it personally. Yes, "virtuous non-religious" person. :)

I understand that the faith you have is a personal experience. I am atheist, but I am the kind that doesn't care if you are or aren't. It's really none of my business what you are as long as you're a decent person. And so as long as you (meaning anyone) don't shove my face in your religion or try to insert your religion into government then I have no problem with it at all.

Much of the vitriol you see on sites like this one is a direct reaction to just such behavior perpetrated by religious people. There's a bit too much lumping going on. Rather than treat each person individually, many theists are lumped in with the worst sort of theist (and vice versa). Much of it is also in good fun, so try not to take it personally.

]]> By: MelM http://freethinker.co.uk/2009/08/19/us-catholics-call-on-cbs-to-pull-the-plug-on-%e2%80%98vile%e2%80%99-penn-teller-for-%e2%80%98hate-speech%e2%80%99/comment-page-1/#comment-20947 MelM Thu, 20 Aug 2009 22:17:21 +0000 http://freethinker.co.uk/?p=7968#comment-20947 I, for one, would need to be convinced by a rational argument that I should go "beyond reason". Otherwise, all I'd have is some form of argument "beyond reason" to justify going "beyond reason" (unless, of course, going beyond reason were an axiom--which it isn't!.) Bummer: I'll never be pious! A well done description of "faith" pointed to with a URL would be quite adequate, and I would greatly appreciate the resource. Really! Otherwise, I'm stuck with a description such as: "Faith is a willful decision to not be conscious of reality--a willful rejection of the responsibilty of consciousness--brought about by placing the views of some herd authorities about one's own mind; it's an attempt to escape the fact that each of us is fundamentally cognitivly alone." The problem of knowledge (the philosophic science of epistemology) is not easy but "faith" is one of the most corrupt solutions ever devised. I, for one, would need to be convinced by a rational argument that I should go "beyond reason". Otherwise, all I'd have is some form of argument "beyond reason" to justify going "beyond reason" (unless, of course, going beyond reason were an axiom–which it isn't!.) Bummer: I'll never be pious!

A well done description of "faith" pointed to with a URL would be quite adequate, and I would greatly appreciate the resource. Really! Otherwise, I'm stuck with a description such as: "Faith is a willful decision to not be conscious of reality–a willful rejection of the responsibilty of consciousness–brought about by placing the views of some herd authorities about one's own mind; it's an attempt to escape the fact that each of us is fundamentally cognitivly alone." The problem of knowledge (the philosophic science of epistemology) is not easy but "faith" is one of the most corrupt solutions ever devised.

]]> By: Angela_K http://freethinker.co.uk/2009/08/19/us-catholics-call-on-cbs-to-pull-the-plug-on-%e2%80%98vile%e2%80%99-penn-teller-for-%e2%80%98hate-speech%e2%80%99/comment-page-1/#comment-20945 Angela_K Thu, 20 Aug 2009 21:09:50 +0000 http://freethinker.co.uk/?p=7968#comment-20945 What you actually said was “That being said, faith is not something I can adequately describe on a blog post.” Given that “faith” appears to be your raison d'être, I would have thought you would be able to articulate. What you actually said was “That being said, faith is not something I can adequately describe on a blog post.”
Given that “faith” appears to be your raison d'être, I would have thought you would be able to articulate.

]]> By: MelM http://freethinker.co.uk/2009/08/19/us-catholics-call-on-cbs-to-pull-the-plug-on-%e2%80%98vile%e2%80%99-penn-teller-for-%e2%80%98hate-speech%e2%80%99/comment-page-1/#comment-20943 MelM Thu, 20 Aug 2009 20:46:51 +0000 http://freethinker.co.uk/?p=7968#comment-20943 To your list of "beyond reason", let me add one of the great books of piety: "Malleus Maleficarum" (The Hammer of Witches--published in 1487). I've seen this book described as one of the most evil books ever written. BTW, the Cracker Cult can't take credit for the whole of European witch killing. As I recall, most of it was't by them. Wikipedia: Malleus Maleficarum: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hammer_of_witches" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hammer_of_witches</a> As it happens, there's a new translation by Christopher S. Mackay now in paperback. I'm reading it but haven't yet finished the intro material (which seems quote good). <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Hammer-Witches-Complete-Translation-Maleficarum/dp/0521747872/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1250799606&sr=1-1" target="_blank">http://www.amazon.com/Hammer-Witches-Complete-Tra...</a> To your list of "beyond reason", let me add one of the great books of piety: "Malleus Maleficarum" (The Hammer of Witches–published in 1487). I've seen this book described as one of the most evil books ever written. BTW, the Cracker Cult can't take credit for the whole of European witch killing. As I recall, most of it was't by them.

Wikipedia: Malleus Maleficarum:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hammer_of_witches

As it happens, there's a new translation by Christopher S. Mackay now in paperback. I'm reading it but haven't yet finished the intro material (which seems quote good).
http://www.amazon.com/Hammer-W.....Tra…

]]> By: MelM http://freethinker.co.uk/2009/08/19/us-catholics-call-on-cbs-to-pull-the-plug-on-%e2%80%98vile%e2%80%99-penn-teller-for-%e2%80%98hate-speech%e2%80%99/comment-page-1/#comment-20942 MelM Thu, 20 Aug 2009 20:18:42 +0000 http://freethinker.co.uk/?p=7968#comment-20942 Part 3: BTW, Aristotle had the basic rebuttal of any "science is based on faith" claims. Yes, there are things that cannot be proved, but that does not make them arbitray assertions of faith. The importance of this can't be overestimated. Link to the Standford Encyclopedia of Philosophy ("The Fundamental Principles: Axioms): <a href="http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/aristotle-metaphysics/#FunPriAxi" target="_blank">http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/aristotle-metap...</a> Wikipedia: "presuppositional apologetics": <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presuppositional_apologetics" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presuppositional_apo...</a> Part 3:
BTW, Aristotle had the basic rebuttal of any "science is based on faith" claims. Yes, there are things that cannot be proved, but that does not make them arbitray assertions of faith. The importance of this can't be overestimated.

Link to the Standford Encyclopedia of Philosophy ("The Fundamental Principles: Axioms):
http://plato.stanford.edu/entr.....tap…

Wikipedia: "presuppositional apologetics":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P.....apo…

]]> By: MelM http://freethinker.co.uk/2009/08/19/us-catholics-call-on-cbs-to-pull-the-plug-on-%e2%80%98vile%e2%80%99-penn-teller-for-%e2%80%98hate-speech%e2%80%99/comment-page-1/#comment-20941 MelM Thu, 20 Aug 2009 20:18:00 +0000 http://freethinker.co.uk/?p=7968#comment-20941 Part 2: The attack on reason by the pious takes many many forms and is not necessarily direct: "Science rests on faith" is an example; the popular "presuppositional apologetics" is another. One of the most loathsome things one person can do to another is to try to convince them to give up the rationality of their minds. If it saves their religion, however, the pious don't hesitate to use this ugly weapon. The pious have wishes for a magical escape from reality; they have to defy reason to maintain a hold on the wishes. If they can convince people that reason is limited or is itself based on faith, then the racket can continue for centuries more. The pious know what their enemy is; it's time that atheists understood this too. Part 2:
The attack on reason by the pious takes many many forms and is not necessarily direct: "Science rests on faith" is an example; the popular "presuppositional apologetics" is another. One of the most loathsome things one person can do to another is to try to convince them to give up the rationality of their minds. If it saves their religion, however, the pious don't hesitate to use this ugly weapon. The pious have wishes for a magical escape from reality; they have to defy reason to maintain a hold on the wishes. If they can convince people that reason is limited or is itself based on faith, then the racket can continue for centuries more. The pious know what their enemy is; it's time that atheists understood this too.

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