Comments on: Church of England vicar jailed for sex offences against boys in Leeds http://freethinker.co.uk/2009/10/18/church-of-england-vicar-jailed-for-sex-offences-against-boys-in-leeds/ The voice of atheism since 1881 Sun, 12 Feb 2012 11:48:54 +0000 hourly 1 By: valdemar http://freethinker.co.uk/2009/10/18/church-of-england-vicar-jailed-for-sex-offences-against-boys-in-leeds/comment-page-1/#comment-23114 valdemar Mon, 19 Oct 2009 16:04:24 +0000 http://freethinker.co.uk/?p=8984#comment-23114 You're right - and the nature of faith is that those who wield authority within a church (or whatever) have power without real responsibility, because they are given that power by God - a nonexistent being who is by definition unaccountable. 'God will forgive me if I break this law because He can see into my heart and know I'm a good man really' is a point of view that I'm sure many child-abusers hold. Can anyone imagine a similar case in which someone decided that 'people in general will forgive me and decide that I'm a decent bloke really if I have have sex with a nine-year-old'? Of course not. If you are morally responsible not to other people but to a fantasy that only exists in your imagination, indulging your fantasies must become much easier. And of course abusive personalities are attracted to religion. The evidence is just overwhelming. You're right – and the nature of faith is that those who wield authority within a church (or whatever) have power without real responsibility, because they are given that power by God – a nonexistent being who is by definition unaccountable. 'God will forgive me if I break this law because He can see into my heart and know I'm a good man really' is a point of view that I'm sure many child-abusers hold. Can anyone imagine a similar case in which someone decided that 'people in general will forgive me and decide that I'm a decent bloke really if I have have sex with a nine-year-old'? Of course not. If you are morally responsible not to other people but to a fantasy that only exists in your imagination, indulging your fantasies must become much easier. And of course abusive personalities are attracted to religion. The evidence is just overwhelming.

]]> By: barriejohn http://freethinker.co.uk/2009/10/18/church-of-england-vicar-jailed-for-sex-offences-against-boys-in-leeds/comment-page-1/#comment-23105 barriejohn Mon, 19 Oct 2009 13:34:25 +0000 http://freethinker.co.uk/?p=8984#comment-23105 I was an evangelical Christian for years, and I know what I am talking about! Almost exactly twenty years ago a young Christain woman whom it was a delight to know, and of whom I was very fond, jumped off a multi-storey car park in one of our major towns and ended her life. The reason given - which most people believe to this day - was that it was found that her father-in-law (a big noise amongst the local Plymouth Brethren) was molesting her children. I was a family friend, and can tell you that this was only half the story. The real reason for her grief and despair was the fact that HE HAD DONE THIS BEFORE AND IT HAD BEEN BRUSHED UNDER THE CARPET!! Amongst Jimmy Swaggart-style "tearsof repentance" he had promised that such a thing would never happen again, and then, because he had "got away with it", carried on where he had left off! He had to leave the Brethren, of course, but was welcomed with open arms by another local "Evangelical Church", and nothing was ever said to the police, to my knowledge. I'm telling you, this sort of thing is going on all over the place, and because of "misplaced loyalties", most of it never comes to light. "The Church" must be protected at all costs!! I was an evangelical Christian for years, and I know what I am talking about! Almost exactly twenty years ago a young Christain woman whom it was a delight to know, and of whom I was very fond, jumped off a multi-storey car park in one of our major towns and ended her life. The reason given – which most people believe to this day – was that it was found that her father-in-law (a big noise amongst the local Plymouth Brethren) was molesting her children. I was a family friend, and can tell you that this was only half the story. The real reason for her grief and despair was the fact that HE HAD DONE THIS BEFORE AND IT HAD BEEN BRUSHED UNDER THE CARPET!! Amongst Jimmy Swaggart-style "tearsof repentance" he had promised that such a thing would never happen again, and then, because he had "got away with it", carried on where he had left off! He had to leave the Brethren, of course, but was welcomed with open arms by another local "Evangelical Church", and nothing was ever said to the police, to my knowledge. I'm telling you, this sort of thing is going on all over the place, and because of "misplaced loyalties", most of it never comes to light. "The Church" must be protected at all costs!!

]]> By: barriejohn http://freethinker.co.uk/2009/10/18/church-of-england-vicar-jailed-for-sex-offences-against-boys-in-leeds/comment-page-1/#comment-23104 barriejohn Mon, 19 Oct 2009 13:33:02 +0000 http://freethinker.co.uk/?p=8984#comment-23104 I was an evangelical Christian for years, and I know what I am talking about! Almost exactly twenty years ago a young Christain woman whom it was a delight to know, and of whom I was very fond, jumped off a multi-storey car park in one of our major towns and ended her life. The reason given - which most people believe to this day - was that it was found that her father-in-law (a big noise amongst the local Plymouth Brethren) was molesting her children. I was a family friend, and can tell you that this was only half the story. The real reason for her grief and despair was the fact that HE HAD DONE THIS BEFORE AND IT HAD BEEN BRUSHED UNDER THE CARPET!! Amongst Jimmy Swaggart-style "tearsof repentance" he had promised that such a thing would never happen again, and then, because he had "got away with it", carried on where he had left off! He had to leave the Brethren, of course, but was welcomed with open arms by another local "Evangelical Church", and nothing was ever said to the police, to my knowledge. I'm telling you, this sort of thing is going on all over the place, and because of "misplaced loyalties", most of it never comes to light. I was an evangelical Christian for years, and I know what I am talking about! Almost exactly twenty years ago a young Christain woman whom it was a delight to know, and of whom I was very fond, jumped off a multi-storey car park in one of our major towns and ended her life. The reason given – which most people believe to this day – was that it was found that her father-in-law (a big noise amongst the local Plymouth Brethren) was molesting her children. I was a family friend, and can tell you that this was only half the story. The real reason for her grief and despair was the fact that HE HAD DONE THIS BEFORE AND IT HAD BEEN BRUSHED UNDER THE CARPET!! Amongst Jimmy Swaggart-style "tearsof repentance" he had promised that such a thing would never happen again, and then, because he had "got away with it", carried on where he had left off! He had to leave the Brethren, of course, but was welcomed with open arms by another local "Evangelical Church", and nothing was ever said to the police, to my knowledge. I'm telling you, this sort of thing is going on all over the place, and because of "misplaced loyalties", most of it never comes to light.

]]> By: barry_duke http://freethinker.co.uk/2009/10/18/church-of-england-vicar-jailed-for-sex-offences-against-boys-in-leeds/comment-page-1/#comment-23103 barry_duke Mon, 19 Oct 2009 13:16:38 +0000 http://freethinker.co.uk/?p=8984#comment-23103 If there's one thing Christians do best, Neal, is hypocrisy. I have a fridge magnet which shows a family at prayer in church. The wording is "Christians aren't perfect. They just want you to be!" So long as sanctimonious believers bang on about how superior to everyone else they are we will continue to publish items which demonstate that religion and morality are not only NOT linked, but are generally poles apart. If there's one thing Christians do best, Neal, is hypocrisy. I have a fridge magnet which shows a family at prayer in church. The wording is "Christians aren't perfect. They just want you to be!" So long as sanctimonious believers bang on about how superior to everyone else they are we will continue to publish items which demonstate that religion and morality are not only NOT linked, but are generally poles apart.

]]> By: Neal O http://freethinker.co.uk/2009/10/18/church-of-england-vicar-jailed-for-sex-offences-against-boys-in-leeds/comment-page-1/#comment-23101 Neal O Mon, 19 Oct 2009 10:44:57 +0000 http://freethinker.co.uk/?p=8984#comment-23101 It's hard to take the bible seriously, just like any other of those centuries old religious texts. So what if Paul was screwed up? Just cos the bible may have screwed up a few people it blatantly does not make all christians screwed up like Hedge just because they 'believe'. The question with Hedge is two fold. Did his religion make him a child abuser? I don't think so. Anyone with any research evidence to suggest otherwise, particularly in religions like C of E as opposed to Catholic? Secondly is the church complicit? In most cases of Catholic abusers we know they usually are but here I can find no suggestion of this here. I therefore propose again the case that this story really does not merit space in Freethinker. It's hard to take the bible seriously, just like any other of those centuries old religious texts. So what if Paul was screwed up? Just cos the bible may have screwed up a few people it blatantly does not make all christians screwed up like Hedge just because they 'believe'.

The question with Hedge is two fold. Did his religion make him a child abuser? I don't think so. Anyone with any research evidence to suggest otherwise, particularly in religions like C of E as opposed to Catholic? Secondly is the church complicit? In most cases of Catholic abusers we know they usually are but here I can find no suggestion of this here. I therefore propose again the case that this story really does not merit space in Freethinker.

]]> By: barriejohn http://freethinker.co.uk/2009/10/18/church-of-england-vicar-jailed-for-sex-offences-against-boys-in-leeds/comment-page-1/#comment-23100 barriejohn Mon, 19 Oct 2009 09:19:38 +0000 http://freethinker.co.uk/?p=8984#comment-23100 Did anyone bother to read my comment (above)? All religions, especially Christianity, are absolutely crammed with people like Hedge, battling away with their own personal "demons", like volcanoes just waiting to explode! Look up Romans chapter 7, and tell me if the "Apostle Paul" wasn't experiencing the self-same thing, and merely sublimating some deep, dark, hidden desires which he dared not even mention. There has been much speculation as to what he meant, especially as he keeps on throughout the epistles about this "spiritual warfare" that is going on, and the fact that he has to continually keep "the flesh" under control. He speaks of God having given him a "thorn in the flesh" to keep him humble, and Christians have tried to explain this by referring to some unknown physical problem, but others have said that it is much more likely that he is referring again to his "spiritual" weakness, which some have even thought was homosexuality. Whether they are right or not, he was most certainly a tortured soul, fighting a continual battle with his mind against desires that were almost certainly of a sexual nature to be so very strong. Did anyone bother to read my comment (above)? All religions, especially Christianity, are absolutely crammed with people like Hedge, battling away with their own personal "demons", like volcanoes just waiting to explode! Look up Romans chapter 7, and tell me if the "Apostle Paul" wasn't experiencing the self-same thing, and merely sublimating some deep, dark, hidden desires which he dared not even mention. There has been much speculation as to what he meant, especially as he keeps on throughout the epistles about this "spiritual warfare" that is going on, and the fact that he has to continually keep "the flesh" under control. He speaks of God having given him a "thorn in the flesh" to keep him humble, and Christians have tried to explain this by referring to some unknown physical problem, but others have said that it is much more likely that he is referring again to his "spiritual" weakness, which some have even thought was homosexuality. Whether they are right or not, he was most certainly a tortured soul, fighting a continual battle with his mind against desires that were almost certainly of a sexual nature to be so very strong.

]]> By: dogon http://freethinker.co.uk/2009/10/18/church-of-england-vicar-jailed-for-sex-offences-against-boys-in-leeds/comment-page-1/#comment-23093 dogon Sun, 18 Oct 2009 23:52:15 +0000 http://freethinker.co.uk/?p=8984#comment-23093 Neal O ...A better target.....How about a discussion on the merits of Ireland passing a "blasphemy" law due to take effect this month....would you not think a society that calls itself "secular" and leader in the computer age could have it's elected officials dwell on something more urgent............ such as repair the failed banking system. I cannot imagine any member of an elected body within Ireland claiming they have issues on their plate more pressing than pandering to the religious right afraid of losing their feeble grip on a waining power base. Society as whole needs less of the imaginary and more of the imagination. Neal O …A better target…..How about a discussion on the merits of Ireland passing a "blasphemy" law due to take effect this month….would you not think a society that calls itself "secular" and leader in the computer age could have it's elected officials dwell on something more urgent………… such as repair the failed banking system.

I cannot imagine any member of an elected body within Ireland claiming they have issues on their plate more pressing than pandering to the religious right afraid of losing their feeble grip on a waining power base.

Society as whole needs less of the imaginary and more of the imagination.

]]> By: Neal O http://freethinker.co.uk/2009/10/18/church-of-england-vicar-jailed-for-sex-offences-against-boys-in-leeds/comment-page-1/#comment-23088 Neal O Sun, 18 Oct 2009 22:25:10 +0000 http://freethinker.co.uk/?p=8984#comment-23088 Loads of people believe loads of weird stuff, take the American atheist comic and talk show host Bill Maher on vaccination for one. Religions don't have the monopoly on nut cases. As Atheists we are always exposed to the Stalin, Mao etc were atheists (Hitler is debatable). At the end of the day they did what they did not because they were atheists but for their other misguided beliefs. I think a similar case can probably be made here by the C of E on Hedge and his perversions. Please don't get me wrong. I am in no way a fan of the C Of E and I abhor the actions of people like Hedge. I just think there are better targets to pick in Freethinker than this. Ryan on Catholics for instance has serious meat. The C of E (Williams) on sharia being acceptable in the UK is just outrageous. Loads of people believe loads of weird stuff, take the American atheist comic and talk show host Bill Maher on vaccination for one. Religions don't have the monopoly on nut cases.

As Atheists we are always exposed to the Stalin, Mao etc were atheists (Hitler is debatable). At the end of the day they did what they did not because they were atheists but for their other misguided beliefs. I think a similar case can probably be made here by the C of E on Hedge and his perversions.

Please don't get me wrong. I am in no way a fan of the C Of E and I abhor the actions of people like Hedge. I just think there are better targets to pick in Freethinker than this. Ryan on Catholics for instance has serious meat. The C of E (Williams) on sharia being acceptable in the UK is just outrageous.

]]> By: dogon http://freethinker.co.uk/2009/10/18/church-of-england-vicar-jailed-for-sex-offences-against-boys-in-leeds/comment-page-1/#comment-23087 dogon Sun, 18 Oct 2009 20:55:15 +0000 http://freethinker.co.uk/?p=8984#comment-23087 Neal O............ why would anyone expect rational behavior .....ie that you should not molest children because you know it is wrong......from an individual at all that is already way beyond irrational given they belive that people rise from the dead....conceive without having sex...or better still walk on water !! Irrational belief systems create irrational people who conduct their lives in irrational ways. Neal O………… why would anyone expect rational behavior …..ie that you should not molest children because you know it is wrong……from an individual at all that is already way beyond irrational given they belive that people rise from the dead….conceive without having sex…or better still walk on water !!

Irrational belief systems create irrational people who conduct their lives in irrational ways.

]]> By: Angela_K http://freethinker.co.uk/2009/10/18/church-of-england-vicar-jailed-for-sex-offences-against-boys-in-leeds/comment-page-1/#comment-23086 Angela_K Sun, 18 Oct 2009 20:42:48 +0000 http://freethinker.co.uk/?p=8984#comment-23086 Not a reason for bashing religion? Well there are a disproportionate number of child abusers in religious organisations; and let us not forget these priests are in position of trust. Maybe the Cof E is not as bad as the catholics when it comes to kiddie fiddling, but they are up there with the rest when it comes to mental abuse - burn in hell if you don't worship our sky fairy etc. Not a reason for bashing religion? Well there are a disproportionate number of child abusers in religious organisations; and let us not forget these priests are in position of trust. Maybe the Cof E is not as bad as the catholics when it comes to kiddie fiddling, but they are up there with the rest when it comes to mental abuse – burn in hell if you don't worship our sky fairy etc.

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