Comments on: Secularists ‘thrilled’ over exclusion of ‘spiritual care’ from US Health Care Bill http://freethinker.co.uk/2009/10/30/secularists-thrilled-over-exclusion-of-%e2%80%98spiritual-care%e2%80%99-from-us-health-care-bill/ The voice of atheism since 1881 Mon, 13 Feb 2012 09:08:53 +0000 hourly 1 By: Just Me http://freethinker.co.uk/2009/10/30/secularists-thrilled-over-exclusion-of-%e2%80%98spiritual-care%e2%80%99-from-us-health-care-bill/comment-page-1/#comment-24271 Just Me Mon, 16 Nov 2009 16:07:51 +0000 http://freethinker.co.uk/?p=9276#comment-24271 There are always the extremes on both sides. Charging someone for praying for you is so against a "real" Christians way. True followers of the Lord would never charge for such a thing. They would agree with you on how ridiculous it is, as do I. What amazes me about anti-religious people is that they are always ready to receive a miracle when it happens but will deny miracles exist, until it is a family member or friend who is need of "help". Praise the Lord for His graciousness even to those who deny Him. Selah. There are always the extremes on both sides. Charging someone for praying for you is so against a “real” Christians way. True followers of the Lord would never charge for such a thing. They would agree with you on how ridiculous it is, as do I.

What amazes me about anti-religious people is that they are always ready to receive a miracle when it happens but will deny miracles exist, until it is a family member or friend who is need of “help”. Praise the Lord for His graciousness even to those who deny Him. Selah.

]]> By: ErnestPayne http://freethinker.co.uk/2009/10/30/secularists-thrilled-over-exclusion-of-%e2%80%98spiritual-care%e2%80%99-from-us-health-care-bill/comment-page-1/#comment-23644 ErnestPayne Sun, 01 Nov 2009 02:29:29 +0000 http://freethinker.co.uk/?p=9276#comment-23644 Haven't seen my Christian Science friends in years but I have a hunch, given their fascist views, they must be blaming it on the muslim president obama. All in all a most sensible conclusion. Haven’t seen my Christian Science friends in years but I have a hunch, given their fascist views, they must be blaming it on the muslim president obama. All in all a most sensible conclusion.

]]> By: Angela_K http://freethinker.co.uk/2009/10/30/secularists-thrilled-over-exclusion-of-%e2%80%98spiritual-care%e2%80%99-from-us-health-care-bill/comment-page-1/#comment-23637 Angela_K Sat, 31 Oct 2009 18:29:47 +0000 http://freethinker.co.uk/?p=9276#comment-23637 Thanks for the correction Dr Harwood. In my haste I got my wires crossed. Thanks for the correction Dr Harwood. In my haste I got my wires crossed.

]]> By: William Harwood http://freethinker.co.uk/2009/10/30/secularists-thrilled-over-exclusion-of-%e2%80%98spiritual-care%e2%80%99-from-us-health-care-bill/comment-page-1/#comment-23632 William Harwood Sat, 31 Oct 2009 15:40:54 +0000 http://freethinker.co.uk/?p=9276#comment-23632 Slight correction. While the prayed-for experimental group and the unprayed-for control group produced identical (within error of measurement) results, a group that KNEW it was being prayed for did LESS well than the other groups. Slight correction. While the prayed-for experimental group and the unprayed-for control group produced identical (within error of measurement) results, a group that KNEW it was being prayed for did LESS well than the other groups.

]]> By: Angela_K http://freethinker.co.uk/2009/10/30/secularists-thrilled-over-exclusion-of-%e2%80%98spiritual-care%e2%80%99-from-us-health-care-bill/comment-page-1/#comment-23621 Angela_K Sat, 31 Oct 2009 09:22:37 +0000 http://freethinker.co.uk/?p=9276#comment-23621 For the benefit of Mr Paxton and persons who believe that talking to your hands has some physical effect - it doesn't. Their have been many proper peer reviewed, controlled scientific trials - even a trial funded by the religious Templeton foundation - all have shown prayer doesn't work. In one study a group of sick people who knew they were being prayed for did slightly better than those who did not know they were being prayed for; a psychological effect rather than physical. Praying for someone is about as useful as ritual slaughter of goats - at least you can eat goat. Do a search of the Internet, there a many examples. For the benefit of Mr Paxton and persons who believe that talking to your hands has some physical effect – it doesn’t. Their have been many proper peer reviewed, controlled scientific trials – even a trial funded by the religious Templeton foundation – all have shown prayer doesn’t work. In one study a group of sick people who knew they were being prayed for did slightly better than those who did not know they were being prayed for; a psychological effect rather than physical. Praying for someone is about as useful as ritual slaughter of goats – at least you can eat goat. Do a search of the Internet, there a many examples.

]]> By: dogon http://freethinker.co.uk/2009/10/30/secularists-thrilled-over-exclusion-of-%e2%80%98spiritual-care%e2%80%99-from-us-health-care-bill/comment-page-1/#comment-23620 dogon Sat, 31 Oct 2009 01:16:59 +0000 http://freethinker.co.uk/?p=9276#comment-23620 Mr Dunnam Just in case you have not picked up a dictionary lately. A cult is: "followers of an exclusive system of religious beliefs and practices" ...like people who eat crackers and pretend its the body of christ or drink wine and pretend its the blood of the same christ....explain that to your 7 year old son or daughter and see what the reaction is ....they would probably accept the notion........... given that is so close to halloween. You are all cults jewish christians muslims et al all fit the definition exactly....and all equally disgusting to the human race Mr Dunnam

Just in case you have not picked up a dictionary lately.

A cult is:
“followers of an exclusive system of religious beliefs and practices”

…like people who eat crackers and pretend its the body of christ or drink wine and pretend its the blood of the same christ….explain that to your 7 year old son or daughter and see what the reaction is ….they would probably accept the notion……….. given that is so close to halloween.

You are all cults jewish christians muslims et al all fit the definition exactly….and all equally disgusting to the human race

]]> By: MelM http://freethinker.co.uk/2009/10/30/secularists-thrilled-over-exclusion-of-%e2%80%98spiritual-care%e2%80%99-from-us-health-care-bill/comment-page-1/#comment-23618 MelM Fri, 30 Oct 2009 23:41:07 +0000 http://freethinker.co.uk/?p=9276#comment-23618 I think this will be a problem over time. All the believers in quack cures--as well as the quacks--will want in on this action. Enough political clout (money and pull) will get your favorite witch doctor or crackpot into the system. What about Benny Hinn? We mustn't forget him. I think this will be a problem over time. All the believers in quack cures–as well as the quacks–will want in on this action. Enough political clout (money and pull) will get your favorite witch doctor or crackpot into the system. What about Benny Hinn? We mustn’t forget him.

]]> By: barriejohn http://freethinker.co.uk/2009/10/30/secularists-thrilled-over-exclusion-of-%e2%80%98spiritual-care%e2%80%99-from-us-health-care-bill/comment-page-1/#comment-23617 barriejohn Fri, 30 Oct 2009 22:32:51 +0000 http://freethinker.co.uk/?p=9276#comment-23617 PS I couldn't be bothered to read <i>chindeck</i>'s rant, but I did see some reference to Bear Grylls being a Christian, for some reason. This would explain, then, why he was using blatant fakery on his piss-poor "survival" programmes! PS I couldn’t be bothered to read chindeck‘s rant, but I did see some reference to Bear Grylls being a Christian, for some reason. This would explain, then, why he was using blatant fakery on his piss-poor “survival” programmes!

]]> By: barriejohn http://freethinker.co.uk/2009/10/30/secularists-thrilled-over-exclusion-of-%e2%80%98spiritual-care%e2%80%99-from-us-health-care-bill/comment-page-1/#comment-23616 barriejohn Fri, 30 Oct 2009 22:29:13 +0000 http://freethinker.co.uk/?p=9276#comment-23616 Never mind. At least they are visiting a site where their poor, benighted minds may receive enlightenment! Never mind. At least they are visiting a site where their poor, benighted minds may receive enlightenment!

]]> By: William Harwood http://freethinker.co.uk/2009/10/30/secularists-thrilled-over-exclusion-of-%e2%80%98spiritual-care%e2%80%99-from-us-health-care-bill/comment-page-1/#comment-23615 William Harwood Fri, 30 Oct 2009 21:39:40 +0000 http://freethinker.co.uk/?p=9276#comment-23615 I recall a challenge to the godphuqt by Christopher Hitchens (paraphrased from memory): "Show me any admirable statement or action by a religious believer that could not have been made by a nontheist." Then there is the self-evident observation from Nobel Laureate Stephen Weinberg: "With or without religion you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." Are people who think that citing a virtuous act by a believer is evidence that religion is a force for good unaware how insane that is? Are they unaware that religion has been the cause of ninety percent of all manmade evil for more than three thousand years? I recall a challenge to the godphuqt by Christopher Hitchens (paraphrased from memory): “Show me any admirable statement or action by a religious believer that could not have been made by a nontheist.”
Then there is the self-evident observation from Nobel Laureate Stephen Weinberg: “With or without religion you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.”
Are people who think that citing a virtuous act by a believer is evidence that religion is a force for good unaware how insane that is? Are they unaware that religion has been the cause of ninety percent of all manmade evil for more than three thousand years?

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