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	<title>Comments on: â€˜Jesus rifles&#8217;, used in Iraq and Afghanistan, violate church/state separation</title>
	<atom:link href="http://freethinker.co.uk/2010/01/19/%e2%80%98jesus-rifles%e2%80%99-used-in-iraq-and-afghanistan-violate-churchstate-separation/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://freethinker.co.uk/2010/01/19/%e2%80%98jesus-rifles%e2%80%99-used-in-iraq-and-afghanistan-violate-churchstate-separation/</link>
	<description>The voice of atheism since 1881</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 13 Feb 2012 09:08:53 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: US defence company stops stamping biblical references on rifle sights</title>
		<link>http://freethinker.co.uk/2010/01/19/%e2%80%98jesus-rifles%e2%80%99-used-in-iraq-and-afghanistan-violate-churchstate-separation/comment-page-1/#comment-27251</link>
		<dc:creator>US defence company stops stamping biblical references on rifle sights</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Jan 2010 21:54:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freethinker.co.uk/?p=11072#comment-27251</guid>
		<description>[...] the RSS feed for updates on this topic.Powered by WP Greet Box WordPress PluginFOLLOWING a week of bad publicity, a Michigan defence contractor has announced that it will stop stamping references to Bible verses [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the RSS feed for updates on this topic.Powered by WP Greet Box WordPress PluginFOLLOWING a week of bad publicity, a Michigan defence contractor has announced that it will stop stamping references to Bible verses [...]</p>
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		<title>By: The Rational Fool</title>
		<link>http://freethinker.co.uk/2010/01/19/%e2%80%98jesus-rifles%e2%80%99-used-in-iraq-and-afghanistan-violate-churchstate-separation/comment-page-1/#comment-27131</link>
		<dc:creator>The Rational Fool</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jan 2010 18:49:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freethinker.co.uk/?p=11072#comment-27131</guid>
		<description>@Thornavis
&lt;i&gt;... dangerous ... we are already in armed conflict with parts of the Muslim world... positively hair rising ... Stop killing Bin Laden with your mouth before you get carried away would be my advice.&lt;/i&gt;

Sane advice. Thanks, I&#039;ll tone down the rhetoric. Sadly, though, such fears led to the silencing of free speech at Index on Censorship, Yale University ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Thornavis<br />
<i>&#8230; dangerous &#8230; we are already in armed conflict with parts of the Muslim world&#8230; positively hair rising &#8230; Stop killing Bin Laden with your mouth before you get carried away would be my advice.</i></p>
<p>Sane advice. Thanks, I&#8217;ll tone down the rhetoric. Sadly, though, such fears led to the silencing of free speech at Index on Censorship, Yale University &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Thornavis.</title>
		<link>http://freethinker.co.uk/2010/01/19/%e2%80%98jesus-rifles%e2%80%99-used-in-iraq-and-afghanistan-violate-churchstate-separation/comment-page-1/#comment-27116</link>
		<dc:creator>Thornavis.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jan 2010 16:25:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freethinker.co.uk/?p=11072#comment-27116</guid>
		<description>The Rational Fool: No I don&#039;t think anything of the sort, I was suggesting that talk of &#039;wiping out&#039; is dangerous. It&#039;s questionable enough when the battle is, so far, only one of words as with ceationism but when you talk of wiping out Islam as an idea whilst we are already in armed conflict with parts of the Muslim world it becomes positively hair raising, I think rog has it right. Stop killing Bin Laden with your mouth before you get carried away would be my advice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Rational Fool: No I don&#8217;t think anything of the sort, I was suggesting that talk of &#8216;wiping out&#8217; is dangerous. It&#8217;s questionable enough when the battle is, so far, only one of words as with ceationism but when you talk of wiping out Islam as an idea whilst we are already in armed conflict with parts of the Muslim world it becomes positively hair raising, I think rog has it right. Stop killing Bin Laden with your mouth before you get carried away would be my advice.</p>
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		<title>By: The Rational Fool</title>
		<link>http://freethinker.co.uk/2010/01/19/%e2%80%98jesus-rifles%e2%80%99-used-in-iraq-and-afghanistan-violate-churchstate-separation/comment-page-1/#comment-27092</link>
		<dc:creator>The Rational Fool</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jan 2010 03:38:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freethinker.co.uk/?p=11072#comment-27092</guid>
		<description>@Thornavis
Do you think that the only way of wiping out the idea of creationism, and supplanting it with evolution, is to kill everyone who believed in the former? If humanity had thought so about every crazy idea that was held dearly by one and all, we&#039;d still be burning witches at the stake! [I know, I know, some still do in Uganda :(]

@rog
&lt;i&gt;&quot;... as for demonising one section of society who, on the whole, are non-violent...&quot;&lt;/i&gt;
I am mostly in agreement with the sentiments that you have expressed in your comment. Believe me, I am not for demonizing Muslims, who, I know quite well, come in all different hues â€” refuseniks to moderates to fundamentalists. Let us not conflate repudiation of ideas with &quot;demonizing&quot; people, though. As Johan Hari wrote &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/johann-hari-why-should-i-respect-these-oppressive-religions-1517789.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;, &quot;All people deserve respect, but not all ideas do.&quot; 

The idea of punishment by death to the non-believers, the blasphemers, and the apostates; the idea that women are inferior to men, forever to be oppressed and subjugated; the idea that stoning  13-year olds to death is okay in the name of &quot;honor&quot;; and above all, the idea that these arcane ideas are the laws of Allah, and therefore unchallengeable, are demonic. Not the people who voluntarily, are brainwashed, or are forced into buying these ideas. The religion that holds these ideas in the highest reverence  deserves the utmost scorn, and belongs to the &quot;ash heap of history&quot;, to borrow Ronald Reagan&#039;s phrase. Not the pedestal of special protection and immunity that the politically correct are wont to accord them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Thornavis<br />
Do you think that the only way of wiping out the idea of creationism, and supplanting it with evolution, is to kill everyone who believed in the former? If humanity had thought so about every crazy idea that was held dearly by one and all, we&#8217;d still be burning witches at the stake! [I know, I know, some still do in Uganda <img src='http://freethinker.co.uk/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif' alt=':(' class='wp-smiley' /> ]</p>
<p>@rog<br />
<i>&#8220;&#8230; as for demonising one section of society who, on the whole, are non-violent&#8230;&#8221;</i><br />
I am mostly in agreement with the sentiments that you have expressed in your comment. Believe me, I am not for demonizing Muslims, who, I know quite well, come in all different hues â€” refuseniks to moderates to fundamentalists. Let us not conflate repudiation of ideas with &#8220;demonizing&#8221; people, though. As Johan Hari wrote <a href="http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/johann-hari-why-should-i-respect-these-oppressive-religions-1517789.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>, &#8220;All people deserve respect, but not all ideas do.&#8221; </p>
<p>The idea of punishment by death to the non-believers, the blasphemers, and the apostates; the idea that women are inferior to men, forever to be oppressed and subjugated; the idea that stoning  13-year olds to death is okay in the name of &#8220;honor&#8221;; and above all, the idea that these arcane ideas are the laws of Allah, and therefore unchallengeable, are demonic. Not the people who voluntarily, are brainwashed, or are forced into buying these ideas. The religion that holds these ideas in the highest reverence  deserves the utmost scorn, and belongs to the &#8220;ash heap of history&#8221;, to borrow Ronald Reagan&#8217;s phrase. Not the pedestal of special protection and immunity that the politically correct are wont to accord them.</p>
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		<title>By: rog</title>
		<link>http://freethinker.co.uk/2010/01/19/%e2%80%98jesus-rifles%e2%80%99-used-in-iraq-and-afghanistan-violate-churchstate-separation/comment-page-1/#comment-27088</link>
		<dc:creator>rog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jan 2010 01:00:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freethinker.co.uk/?p=11072#comment-27088</guid>
		<description>@The Rational Fool
â€œIf not, whatâ€™s point of writing and commenting on the free thinker, eh?â€

Freethought and liberalism are fragile things that should be cherished; there is a battle going on, one of ideas &amp; ideals. Of course I would prefer a world without religion, however, it is impossible to force a person to think in a way that will always coincide with oneâ€™s own point of view â€“ for this I am grateful as it gives humanity hope.

I think that the best efforts of secularism are when it works towards removing religionâ€™s dubious place in public life, thereby giving the next generation the chance to grow without the impedance of individuals empowered by the state who give more credibility to the supernatural than observed reality.

If slow and steady progress is the best that we can hope for in our own country, it strains the imagination to think that Islamic nations will cease to follow their current ideologies in our lifetimes; only after many years of struggle and after the spilling of much blood of the people who reside there are they likely to see a change.

From my own perspective I believe that our government should treat organised religions with an even hand, even if that hand winds up as a slap in the face; but, as for demonising one section of society who, on the whole, are non-violent: I do not hold with it - it goes against the hard fought liberties that I [and I sincerely hope, you] hold dear.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@The Rational Fool<br />
â€œIf not, whatâ€™s point of writing and commenting on the free thinker, eh?â€</p>
<p>Freethought and liberalism are fragile things that should be cherished; there is a battle going on, one of ideas &amp; ideals. Of course I would prefer a world without religion, however, it is impossible to force a person to think in a way that will always coincide with oneâ€™s own point of view â€“ for this I am grateful as it gives humanity hope.</p>
<p>I think that the best efforts of secularism are when it works towards removing religionâ€™s dubious place in public life, thereby giving the next generation the chance to grow without the impedance of individuals empowered by the state who give more credibility to the supernatural than observed reality.</p>
<p>If slow and steady progress is the best that we can hope for in our own country, it strains the imagination to think that Islamic nations will cease to follow their current ideologies in our lifetimes; only after many years of struggle and after the spilling of much blood of the people who reside there are they likely to see a change.</p>
<p>From my own perspective I believe that our government should treat organised religions with an even hand, even if that hand winds up as a slap in the face; but, as for demonising one section of society who, on the whole, are non-violent: I do not hold with it &#8211; it goes against the hard fought liberties that I [and I sincerely hope, you] hold dear.</p>
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		<title>By: Thornavis.</title>
		<link>http://freethinker.co.uk/2010/01/19/%e2%80%98jesus-rifles%e2%80%99-used-in-iraq-and-afghanistan-violate-churchstate-separation/comment-page-1/#comment-27082</link>
		<dc:creator>Thornavis.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jan 2010 22:27:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freethinker.co.uk/?p=11072#comment-27082</guid>
		<description>@Rational Fool; &quot;Wipe out&quot;, that wouldn&#039;t be like &#039;liquidate&#039; would it ? You know as in Kulaks, class enemies that sort of thing. If you can come up with a way of wiping out ideas without wiping out a large number of the people who hold them I will be very surprised.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Rational Fool; &#8220;Wipe out&#8221;, that wouldn&#8217;t be like &#8216;liquidate&#8217; would it ? You know as in Kulaks, class enemies that sort of thing. If you can come up with a way of wiping out ideas without wiping out a large number of the people who hold them I will be very surprised.</p>
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		<title>By: valdemar</title>
		<link>http://freethinker.co.uk/2010/01/19/%e2%80%98jesus-rifles%e2%80%99-used-in-iraq-and-afghanistan-violate-churchstate-separation/comment-page-1/#comment-27081</link>
		<dc:creator>valdemar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jan 2010 22:10:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freethinker.co.uk/?p=11072#comment-27081</guid>
		<description>@Rational Fool - I think you&#039;re a bit premature about writing off Stalinism, given what Putin&#039;s up to.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Rational Fool &#8211; I think you&#8217;re a bit premature about writing off Stalinism, given what Putin&#8217;s up to.</p>
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		<title>By: Holy Wars &#171; A View From The West</title>
		<link>http://freethinker.co.uk/2010/01/19/%e2%80%98jesus-rifles%e2%80%99-used-in-iraq-and-afghanistan-violate-churchstate-separation/comment-page-1/#comment-27073</link>
		<dc:creator>Holy Wars &#171; A View From The West</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jan 2010 18:17:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freethinker.co.uk/?p=11072#comment-27073</guid>
		<description>[...] The Freethinker [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The Freethinker [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Danaher</title>
		<link>http://freethinker.co.uk/2010/01/19/%e2%80%98jesus-rifles%e2%80%99-used-in-iraq-and-afghanistan-violate-churchstate-separation/comment-page-1/#comment-27065</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Danaher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jan 2010 12:17:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freethinker.co.uk/?p=11072#comment-27065</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;&quot;I note that none of these holy rifle sites refer to hippy liberal Jesus saying things like â€˜Blessed are the peacemakersâ€™.&lt;/i&gt;&quot;

Nah, rog, it was blessed are the &lt;i&gt;&lt;b&gt;cheesemakers&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;I note that none of these holy rifle sites refer to hippy liberal Jesus saying things like â€˜Blessed are the peacemakersâ€™.</i>&#8221;</p>
<p>Nah, rog, it was blessed are the <i><b>cheesemakers</b></i>.</p>
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		<title>By: The Rational Fool</title>
		<link>http://freethinker.co.uk/2010/01/19/%e2%80%98jesus-rifles%e2%80%99-used-in-iraq-and-afghanistan-violate-churchstate-separation/comment-page-1/#comment-27052</link>
		<dc:creator>The Rational Fool</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jan 2010 02:27:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freethinker.co.uk/?p=11072#comment-27052</guid>
		<description>@rog
&quot;Imagine there&#039;s no religion... they say I&#039;m a dreamer...&quot;. Besides, it didn&#039;t take too long for Apartheid, Nazism, and Stalinism to be wiped out, and I remain hopeful :) If not, what&#039;s point of writing and commenting on &lt;i&gt;the free thinker&lt;/i&gt;, eh?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@rog<br />
&#8220;Imagine there&#8217;s no religion&#8230; they say I&#8217;m a dreamer&#8230;&#8221;. Besides, it didn&#8217;t take too long for Apartheid, Nazism, and Stalinism to be wiped out, and I remain hopeful <img src='http://freethinker.co.uk/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  If not, what&#8217;s point of writing and commenting on <i>the free thinker</i>, eh?</p>
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