SCIENCE still has a way to go in Texas, where a new poll suggests that a majority in the Lone Star State – albeit a slim one – reject evolution.
The poll also noted:
Nearly a third of Texans believe humans and dinosaurs roamed the earth at the same time.
This prompted David Prindle, a professor of government at the University of Texas, Austin, who composed the questions, to quip that the survey confirmed comedian Lewis Black’s claim that a significant proportion of the American people think that The Flintstones was a documentary.
The Flintstones
Fortunately, the views of Texans in general are not reflected in the views of Texas’s scientific community. A report of a survey of Texas biologists conducted by the Texas Freedom Network Education Fund in conjunction with Raymond Eve summarised:
1. Texas scientists (97.7 percent) overwhelmingly reject ‘intelligent design’ as valid science.
2. Texas science faculty (95 percent) want only evolution taught in science classrooms.
3. Scientists reject teaching the so-called ‘weaknesses’ of evolution, with 94 percent saying that those arguments are not valid scientific objections to evolution.
The Texas poll coincides with a plea by Leo Igwe, Chair of the Centre for Inquiry, Nigeria, to improve science education in his country where:
Unfortunately, the teaching of evolution is not encouraged in our schools. And this is a reflection of the poor and low standards of science education in our institutions.
Writing in the Guardian (Nigeria), he added:
The topic of evolution is among the last in the science curriculum. The textbooks used in science classes contain vague references to this vital discovery. Evolution is not taught as a fact – as a scientific fact.
That means most students graduate from schools without learning about evolution or knowing very little about this important topic. Recently, I met a final year student of microbiology in one of the private universities who told me she never heard about Charles Darwin. I didn’t have time to query her further, but I wouldn’t have been surprised if she had said, she never heard about evolution. So what we have here in Nigeria is a sorry situation where science students graduate from school without learning about Charles Darwin or evolution.
The Freethinker was founded in 1881 by GW Foote, an outspoken critic of religion. After the publication of 
February 20th, 2010 at 4:31 pm
I find it difficult to accept the statement that, “almost a third of Texans believe that dinosaurs and humans roamed the earth at the same time.”
Last time I was there “almost half of Texans” would seem to be more likely. Of course, perhaps some progress has been made.
February 20th, 2010 at 5:50 pm
Well, I certainly consider that evolution is a scientific fact and that religious lore regarding creation is laughable bullshit. But, I can also see that given those two facts, they do not necessarily establish that there was no “intelligent design”.
The concept of an intelligent designer, of course, opens a series of questions regarding the nature of, and the origin of such a designer. Thorny questions with no obvious answers. Yet, at the same time, the greatest minds in the field of astrophysics admit they have no idea whatsoever what may have caused the “big bang”. This in light of the fact that we know that energy and matter are the same stuff, only in different form, and that neither is created or destroyed, it simply changes form.
So, the idea that all of space and time, matter and energy exploded into existence out of nothing, and the mechanism of evolution is built in, life spontaneously generating where conditions allow, is some giant cosmic accident, is in my opinion, no easier to believe. Both ideas are equally counterintuitive. Thus, I am satisfied to listen and learn, and admit that I don’t know.
NeoWolfe
February 20th, 2010 at 6:53 pm
Mr Wolfe: You are clearly unfamiliar with the implications of intelligent design, primarily that any intelligent designer of observable reality must be either incompetent or a sadist. Let me recommend: Unintelligent Design by Mark Perakh; The Ancestor’s Tale by Richard Dawkins; Why Intelligent Design Fails by Matt Young. There are several others, but those are a good place to start. (Note that I am not accusing you of believing in intelligent design.)
February 20th, 2010 at 6:59 pm
Coming soon to a “faith school” near you!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A.....ucation%29
February 20th, 2010 at 7:43 pm
NeoWolfe,
I don’t think ID has anything to say about cosmology, although cdesign proponentsists sometimes try it as a smokescreen.
Unfortunately, at that level of quantum physics my head hurts and I have to lie down. But I gather that there is no reason to believe that cause and effect, or any other way of understanding our universe, applies prior to the Big Bang. Or even that the word ‘prior’ has any meaning.
February 20th, 2010 at 8:13 pm
I’m not big on cosmology. It blows me away unless it’s watered down.
One thing I do understand is evolution.
I cannot tolerate science deniers. I no longer consider myself a biochemist as my career’s taken me elsewhere, but I’ve no time for the stupid cunts that look to scripture for their world view.
That bitch sarah palin worries me. Is the bollox she talks meant to gain votes from religious arseholes or does she really belive what she says? Dangerous either way.
Die you bastards.
February 20th, 2010 at 8:25 pm
Or read some real books, if death seems a little harsh.
And Palin? Both. It’s a double-dip.
It’s certainly a bunch of bollocks by bastard arseholes, but I have a problem with ‘bitch’. I’m sure this has been covered before and I’m not looking to make an issue – I’m relatively new here. Just saying.
February 20th, 2010 at 8:45 pm
Ta for your comment, Don.
I wonder if the books these people would read are your real ones, or chosen by xian schoolboards?
I’ve obviously missed something here regarding use of the word “bitch”. My missus hates it and in the unlikely event palin reads this, I hope she does too.
February 20th, 2010 at 8:49 pm
I think you’re right Don. The “Big Bang” did not have a cause – it happened. There was a very interesting TV series about cosmology a few years ago – not easy for the layman to follow, as it dealt with quantum physics, obviously – and the person presenting it was interviewing many of the scientists at CERN. They all waffled on about what caused the Big Bang, and what might possibly have existed before it, scribbling formulae on their blackboards and blinding the viewer with cutting edge scientific theory, until he finally interviewed the boss. This man, who sat in his office looking for all the world like the chief executive of some multi-national corporation, and nothing like a “scientist”, said more-or-less this: “Yes, we do know what existed before the Big Bang – possibilities existed”!
February 20th, 2010 at 8:59 pm
‘chosen by xian schoolboards’ =/=real books.
My missus hates it
Since you have chosen to share that, have you asked her why?
February 20th, 2010 at 9:00 pm
barriejohn
This is a recent BBC Science link.
Brian Cox is a brilliant advert for science. Articulate and good looking and former popstar.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8522608.stm
February 20th, 2010 at 9:09 pm
Don
I don’t know why the missus hates the word “bitch”. In the war of attrition that marriage is, to know that it does is enough.
She knows what buttons to press to get at me also. If I buckle, she will own me. I would disappoint her if I were to let that happen.
February 20th, 2010 at 9:10 pm
One big difference between ID and science is that ID knows the answers and so they do not look further; science keeps looking. Going back to my Texas experience I was asked what caused the world and the universe. I said I did not know. This religious guy says, “There you are. I do. It was god.”
I asked, “So who caused god?”
“No one,” says he. “He just is.”
“OK,” I says, “Then the universe just is. If you can say god just is, I can say the universe just is.”
“No you can’t. Because I have proof. It is in the bible and that is god’s word.”
These guys are in a bad way. Beyond help or hope many of them. Brains infected by superstition. Quantum; string theory etc. Forget it.
@William Harwood. Excellent comment in response.
February 20th, 2010 at 9:17 pm
Broga
Your debate with a loony rings some bells with me.
You can have fun with them when sober but they try your patience after a few pints.
Round and round on the merry-go-round.
February 20th, 2010 at 9:22 pm
Texas scientists (97.7 percent) overwhelmingly reject ‘intelligent design’ as valid science.
This means 2.3% of Texas scientists invoke magic to solve scientific problems which is a disgrace. What is wrong with Texas?
http://darwin-killed-god.blogspot.com/
February 20th, 2010 at 9:41 pm
I hope these links work (for the benefit of those who have not seen them before!). I first saw them on the ProudAtheists site. There are more if you go there – http://proudatheists.wordpress.com/ – and search for “cartoons”.
http://i787.photobucket.com/al.....stfair.jpg
http://i787.photobucket.com/al.....missed.jpg
http://proudatheists.wordpress.....-cartoons/
February 20th, 2010 at 9:42 pm
Human Ape
“Believe” it or not, there are creatures who describe themselves as “christian scientists”. How’s that for a contradiction?
Love the handle by the way.
Nothing special about our species is there?
February 20th, 2010 at 10:16 pm
@Broadsword. They have an ability, which you don’t meet outside that particular fundamentalist outlook, to be endlessly repetitive. Over and over it is enough to drive any moderately open person crazy. They say something. You reply explaining your point of view and expecting them to address an issue such as some biblical cruelty, nonsense, contradiction. That is ignored and the same gibberish is repeated.
@Human Ape. I am not sure about this but I think Christian Scientists are a religious cult rather than scientists. I recall an acquaintance refusing to consult a clinical doctor because he believed that god would cure him. He died of his condition. I suppose there are scientists who are christians.
As for our species I think we are the most destructive pests on the planet and the cause of massive exterminations of other species wherever we have gone. In some places, e.g. Easter Island, we managed to exterminate ourselves. The Rise and Fall of the Third Chimpanzee is an excellent book on this subject.
February 20th, 2010 at 10:23 pm
Not only do they believe that sh*t, they’re proud of it. Sometimes I’m ashamed to be an American. If it keeps up this way we’ll be a Third World nation in a generation or two.
February 20th, 2010 at 11:13 pm
“Believe” it or not, there are creatures who describe themselves as “christian scientists”.
You think that’s bad? I’m told there are creatures who describe themselves as ‘Christian Rock.’
February 20th, 2010 at 11:15 pm
Being from Texas myself, I find it a bit less hostile towards scientific progress than many people assume. That said, I can’t help but laugh everytime I drive out to visit my relatives in Glen Rose, site of the famous dinosaur tracks and also the “human footprint” next to them (it looks more like a natural pothole to me). The creobots put up a “Science” center right by the entrance of the park to spew their crap.
Frankly, I went to what I believe is the only non-religious private school in my area of Texas (I don’t count the military institute). I remember my teacher, when getting ready to teach us evolution, aske if anyone wanted to exempt themselves from the curriculum. She also offered to teach creationism for anyone who preferred. However, she did not give us an extremely watered-down version, talked about abiogenesis, which was the popular theory at the time, talked about the on-going research, etc. I didn’t realize it at the time, but after listening to other people from my home state, I feel very proudd of my classmates that nobody left, and nobody asked for creationism class. It’s a problem here, so we just have to keep fighting. At least we got those ID punks out of our state’s school board. Here’s to hoping it’s for good.
February 20th, 2010 at 11:23 pm
Don
You’re right. There are xian rockers unfortunately. When I was in school there were some gits who formed a band. Worse I suppose are the established artistes who “find god” and try to influence their fans. I’m struggling for examples but I’m sure someone can help me here.
Give me Motorhead, Iron Maiden, Megadeth, Saxon, Metallica etc. anyday. although I may do something mental when driving if they’re playing.
February 20th, 2010 at 11:28 pm
Harwood,
Please spare me the sermon. I was deliberately trying to be brief, not to lecture on my every point of view. Even though I call myself an agnostic, I am a humanist in one huge way. I see that even if there is an intelligent designer, he doesn’t give a fuck whether humanity lives or becomes extinct. It would be one of a trillion stories playing out as he watches universal chaos unfold. He didn’t care about the dinosaurs, and he doesn’t care about us. We are cannon fodder in its evolutionary experiment, that is, assuming it exists. All you have to do is observe the food chain to realize that nature is the cruelest most unforgiving machine, with one directive, survival. There is no morals, no mercy, there is just survival. Humans, with our intelligence, wish to imprint morality upon nature, and call it society, and bless our hearts, but, the next asteroid strike, the eruption of Yellowstone, a solar storm, or scores of other scenarios that we choose not to consider will have survivors eating each other. Since WWII we have been living the dream, but, reality is coming home to stay.
NeoWolfe
February 20th, 2010 at 11:29 pm
I posted some links at 9.41 pm, but they are still “awaiting moderation” for some reason. Perhaps you would all care to come back some time tomorrow and read them!
February 20th, 2010 at 11:37 pm
There is quite clear evidence here, @Janstince!
http://missinguniversemuseum.com/Exhibit4a.htm
February 20th, 2010 at 11:41 pm
barriejohn
Nice link.
I thought I saw Bigfoot as well, and a trilobite!
February 20th, 2010 at 11:43 pm
This is “farking” hilarious!!!
http://www.fark.com/cgi/comments.pl?IDLink=3766292
February 20th, 2010 at 11:47 pm
Harwood,
Please spare me the sermon. I was deliberately trying to be brief, not to lecture on my every point of view. Even though I call myself an agnostic, I am a humanist in one huge way. I see that even if there is an intelligent designer, he doesn’t give a fuck whether humanity lives or becomes extinct. It would be one of a trillion stories playing out as he watches universal chaos unfold. He didn’t care about the dinosaurs, and he doesn’t care about us. We are cannon fodder in its evolutionary experiment, that is, assuming it exists. All you have to do is observe the food chain to realize that nature is the cruelest most unforgiving machine, with one directive, survival. There is no morals, no mercy, there is just survival. Humans, with our intelligence, wish to imprint morality upon nature, and call it society, and bless our hearts, but, the next asteroid strike, the eruption of Yellowstone, a solar storm, or scores of other scenarios that we choose not to consider will have survivors eating each other. Since WWII we have been living the dream, but, reality is coming home to stay.
February 20th, 2010 at 11:54 pm
barriejohn
This is “farking” hilarious!!!
This could be a money spinner. Selling fake dinosaur footprint fossils to creationists who will interpret them to suit their own (not peer reviewed) ends. Shall we use plaster of paris or cement? I suggest using the imprint of a hairy male arse with just a hint of bollock. If even they recognise it as false, at least they’ll get the message.
February 20th, 2010 at 11:57 pm
This link, given on the Fark site, is pretty exhaustive. As an ex-evangelical, I find the “theory” that humans and dinosaurs co-existed about as relevant to any real understanding of the Bible as that idiotic idea, of which we were appraised only the other day, that Jesus and the ancient Jews must have worn trousers, since they are quite clearly “men’s attire”! I knew people personally who seriously believed that God had put fossils in the earth to test their faith, and many more who believed that He had created the Earth with the appearance of having great age!!
http://www.paleo.cc/paluxy/onheel.htm
February 21st, 2010 at 12:13 am
That link you just posted Barrie was quite disturbing.
It proves that you can prove anything without proof and still sound convincing to one that is willing to listen. We know there are plenty of those, unquestioning ,uneducated, blameless and deluded sheep willing to accept such pronunciations as fact.
When I was still a scientist, those who tried to force their arguments across without proof or give opinions on the strength of flimsy evidence were called “hand wavers”.
A bit like wizards I suppose.
Or priests
Rabbis
Imams
Abracadabra.
February 21st, 2010 at 12:27 am
This cartoon was priceless!
http://tinypic.com/r/1ttxuf/6
(Time for bed!!)
February 21st, 2010 at 12:37 am
Nite Barrie.
Whisky time…..
Hope I’m awake when our American friends join us.
February 21st, 2010 at 1:27 am
@ Barriejohn : Interesting. That one does look significantly more human-like than the one I saw, though a very odd footprint for a human, though tracking is not my strong point. At any rate, I haven’t done the legwork on all the different supposed footprints near dinosaur tracks, though I find it suspicious that you could find dinosaur and human tracks together without those of any other animal around, or are they just not mentioned. If there are none, it seems it would be a little too “clean” for real evidence. Just my opinion, though.
February 21st, 2010 at 2:41 am
Let me quote some observations that, although they were made in different contexts, are relevant to the state of education in America in general and Texas in particular.
How ignorant a man can become on a diet of managed history–Frank Herbert (The Eyes of Heysenberg)
There’s nothing wrong with being ignorant. Guilt should attach only to anyone who remains ignorant in the presence of an opportunity to learn–Frank Herbert (The White Plague)
Ignorance is self-inflicted stupidity–Barry Longyear (The Tomorrow Testament)
February 21st, 2010 at 2:50 am
janstince,
Some mental midgets have trouble with distinguishing between real cause for logical doubt and a pile of smoldering bullshit. There are no human footprints in the remotest layer of dinosaur fossils. They are millions of years apart, and whats really funny is that as god inspired the bible, he forgot he created the dinosaurs…until now. LOL, science meets bullshit. Vatican meets doomsday.
NeoWolfe
February 21st, 2010 at 6:19 am
I am merely stating facts. That you do not believe them is not to your condemnation, only a comment on the state of your knowledge–Raymond F. Jones (The Alien)
February 21st, 2010 at 9:29 am
Neowolfe:
You might find the following video of interest:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....mp;index=2
It’s the amazing Lawrence Krauss talking on the subject of ‘A Universe From Nothing’.
In a nutshell, since the negative energy of the universe (its gravity) is exactly counterbalanced by its positive energy (its mass), the universe is the ‘ultimate free lunch’.
February 21st, 2010 at 2:47 pm
I suspect this story in apocryphal but I like it. Bertrand Russell, lectured on evolution when a young man. “That is nonsense says an old woman,” the world has been placed on a giant tortoise.
“So what is beneath the tortoise?” asks Russell .
“You think you are so clever young man but you are not. It is tortoises all the way down,” she says.
OK, it is simple stuff. Sadly, that is about the quality of much of the fundamentalist debate in the USA.
In defence of Texas and the rest of the USA. It is so sad that so many brilliant scientists, academics etc in Texas and elsewhere are besmirched by the ID crap that infects their schools.
February 21st, 2010 at 5:52 pm
Tim D.
I have seen clips of that lecture before, and I consider Krauss to be, not only a brilliant thinker, but an entertaining speaker. But, without writing a book, I will put down my reasons for doubt about current accepted dogma of astrophysicists.
They consider that the fact that redshift evidence demonstrate that the further a galaxy is from us, the faster it is moving away from us, to be conclusive evidence of anti-gravity dark energy. Bullshit!! If you lived on a particle of dust involved in an explosion in a vacuum, you would observe the same effect.
And he alludes to the experiments below ground to detect dark matter, but fails to reveal that all these experiments have been total failures. Square one.
But, like me, he subscribes to the theory that if you add up everything in the universe, it necessarily must equal zero. So, let me get weird here, and speculate that an intelligence could spit zero in half. A negative one (electron) and a positive one (proton) then we would have a hydrogen atom. Repeat the process enough times, and you would have a cloud of sufficient gravity to reach critical mass at its core. Since every natural element in nature is known to be the product from collapsed hydrogen stars, and since Mr. Krauss’s video model of how energetic “nothing” is, is wildly theoretical, it settles nothing, and brings me no closer to accepting that which can not be known. Granted, religion is BULLSHIT!!!! but when you accept facts not in evidence, you are becoming religious yourself.
NeoWolfe
February 22nd, 2010 at 7:03 am
To get back to the swearing – please don’t.
I was brought up by Anglicans in a sea of Methodism, where people do not swear at all. If we said “damn” or “bloody” in school we were uncouth and had to stand in the corner. Only people of low intelligence or little education swear, to cover up for their lack of vocabulary. In a high quality website like this one I am disappointed when someone uses curses instead of useful words. If you use women’s body parts as swearwords you have a real problem with feminism.
February 22nd, 2010 at 3:39 pm
@ Broadsword.
p
I’m a Brian Cox fan, he makes physics much more user-friendly for non-scientific minds such as my own. I did not know he was in D:Ream though. Now whenever I see him, I’m gonna think of that bloody song and Tony B-Liar’s bast*rd face, thank
This story is not that surprising though. An increasing number of xians now believe that President Obama is the anti-christ! I mean, for f**ks sake, they have Dubya for 8 years and they think Obama is the anti-christ?
http://www.religiondispatches......lical_vote
Quote: “Obama is caught in a classic catch-22. The Antichrist, the Bible explains, is going to masquerade as an angel of light. This means that the more Obama accomplishes as president and the more he improves America’s image abroad, the more suspicious evangelicals will become; they don’t want to be duped by the devil. Obama’s talk of more cooperation with other nations, the possibility of a national health care plan, his move to nationalize some private businesses, and his goal of expanding protection of the rights of gays and lesbians will drive evangelicals to one certain conclusion: the End of Days are upon us. ”
There’s no saving them, is there?…..
February 23rd, 2010 at 8:59 pm
Why pick on only poor Texas?
70% of the Inhabitants of the Big Apple or L.A. or San Francisco, or most of the western countries I could mention, know not a fuck about evolution or the (not) co-existence of dinosaur and men.
By the way, do Muslims have a theory at all of where they come from?
February 23rd, 2010 at 9:15 pm
Broadsword calling Danny Boy 13x
Barriejohn 8x
NeoWolfe 5x
Don & Broga tie 4x
Doctor Harwood only 3x
Dr. H. feeling not well?
The winner by unanimous decision is……
February 23rd, 2010 at 9:25 pm
OurSally..
This blog is mostly about freedom of speech.
So go away(I wanted to write something else but were afraid to offend you.) if you can’t bear a casual swearword.