SOUR faces all round over at the Christian Institute, where news that the UK Supreme Court has refused permission for an appeal in the case of Lillian Ladele has caused great misery.
Lillian Ladele
Ladele is the Christian registrar who was disciplined by Islington Council in London because of her stance on civil partnerships. According to the CI, when the law changed to permit homosexual civil partnerships, she “politely” requested an accommodation of her religious beliefs.
But unfeeling managers from Islington treated her request as a freestanding act of gross misconduct, threatened her with dismissal and passed confidential employment details about her to a staff LGBT forum.
The nation’s highest court dismissed the application, claiming it “does not raise an arguable point of law of general public importance.”
Miss Ladele says she is “disappointed” and feels her religious rights have been “trampled by another set of rights”. She is “actively considering” taking her legal fight to Europe.
The Supreme Court’s decision leaves Christians feeling sidelined and “let down”, according to Ladele’s backers.
She was seeking to overturn a previous Court of Appeal decision that ruled Islington Council had treated her badly but it did not amount to religious discrimination.
Ladele, speaking via her lawyer, said:
I am naturally disappointed by the Supreme Court’s rejection of my application for appeal. I am actively discussing with my lawyers the possibility of an appeal to the European Court of Human Rights. When the rights of different groups clash, as they have in my case, surely there must be a proportionate attempt to balance those competing rights. In my case, one set of rights was trampled by another set of rights. That cannot be right in a free and democratic society.
I believe my case raises important issues of liberty that deserve further consideration by the courts.
The costs of her legal action are being financed by the Christian Institute’s Legal Defence Fund. Spokesman Mike Judge said:
Christians will feel let down by the Supreme Court decision. It will only serve to reinforce the impression that Christians are being pushed to the sidelines of public life. Our nation’s highest court has effectively told them their concerns are not of general public importance.
But the court’s decision was applauded by National Secular Society President, Terry Sanderson:
We are relieved that the Supreme Court has refused to hear this case. Had Ms Ladele’s case succeeded it would have completely undermined equal treatment under the law for gay people and unlocked the floodgates to many other damaging challenges to equality legislation. Her demands that anyone following their religious conscience be exempt from the law to which everyone else is subject were unreasonable, and I am pleased that the courts have recognised this.
Hat tip: BarrieJohn
She is actively considering taking the case to Europe? She means the christian institute is. Hope they do, another ruling like that will be the door in the face that lot need. Plus it will cost them more out of the coffers.
Finally some good news that this twisted bigot doesn’t get her appeal, and the awful hate filled Christian Institute is now even more strapped for cash and attention.
She was paid to do a job…. and her pathetic deluded beliefs should have no part in her performing her duties.
Anyway she hasn’t read her book of fairy tales properly…according to Leviticus she herself should have been stoned for having a child out of wedlock….these pathetic christianofascists do love to pick and choose.
This news made my day !!!
The more these sick bigots are exposed to public scrutiny, the more they lose their insane appeals based on a spurius sense of injustice the better.
This case sends a message to all businesses. Save yourself the bother and do NOT employ xians or any other religiots for that matter. Wasn’t there also a case recently where an xian went to court after her BA bosses insisted she not wear a cross at work? Didn’t she lose that one?
Deny them jobs, keep them poor, and best of all, sidelined.
Peter Ould has had a lot to say about this case on his loathesome blog, and a charismatic (contradiction in terms!) Christian called Philip Cole has been extremely vociferous in her defence. Sick-bags at the ready; here is one of his comments!!
“An additional observation: The eyes are the window to the soul. Lillian Ladele’s eyes show both the compassion that comes from knowing Christ and the determination that comes from knowing that one’s convictions are correct, whatever the cost. And conviction, especially when it is not in line with the government and media approved values of secular humanism, is increasingly frowned upon in the post-modern societies of Europe.”
http://www.peter-ould.net/2009/12/16/blogging
Do YOU see that lovely compassion in her eyes?
You’re right, Petursey: more hypocrisy.
http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-8367.html
Funnily enough, one of the best pieces I have come across on this subject was by Suzanne Moore on theMailOnline site!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1034546/SUZANNE-MOORE-What–Firemen-choosing-save.html
Would anybody take seriously the claim that a gay person was experiencing discrimination because he wasn’t allowed to have sex on the job? So why are twits like this taken seriously when they whine that they’re not allowed to practice their religion on the job?
Christians aren’t being pushed anywhere. Christians who think they’re allowed to run roughshod over everyone and everything are finally being told to grow up and act like adults. They don’t like it and are throwing tantrums.
Buffy, I just got an email from our troll Bob, saying:
“I note your article on Lilian Ladele – this court “judgement” provides yet more evidence that Christians are being persecuted.”
To which I politely replied:
“Christians exist to be persecuted. It says so in the Bible, so stop fucking whining!”
@Buffy Correct. People who drag these prejudices into their work just have to be suspect. That BA christian was looking for martyrdom of some kind with, no doubt, either a pile of money or continuing in her job. Some of these issues are set up anyway and carefully planned and manipulated.
I’ve said this before, and I’ll probably be saying it again: I’m going to invent a religion where my “god” forbids work between the hours of 9am and 5pm, and see how far I get suing prospective employers for “discriminating” against me with their working practices.
You’re right, Barry; throughout the Bible the message is that God has revealed himself to his elect, and caused blindness to fall upon those whom he has rejected. Jesus gave no indication that even thousands, let alone millions, would ever accept his message, but instead prepared the disciples for persecution and rejection by the people. Even the preaching that they did was not with a view to converting people, but, as in so many other cases in the Bible, to ensure that the hearers were condemned without excuse!
“Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables: that seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.” (Mark 4: 11-12)
“Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. Rejoice, and be exceeding glad.” (Matt. 5: 11-12)
“Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them…many…will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.” (Luke 13: 23-24)
Many more verses in the same vein here:
http://www.topical-bible-studies.org/22-0002.htm
I cannot believe that you people here are missing a fundamental point, the issue here is RETROSPECTIVE legislation. This woman had been working for her employer for many years prior to the change in the law. Therefore the question has to be asked ‘would she have taken a job in this sector, under those rules?’ I would say ‘No’…I was offered a job in 2005 and turned it down because the law had changed and knew that my religious beliefs/convictions would at some point have been in conflict…so her employers should have accommodated her beliefs, i.e. births, deaths only …problem solved…after all most people here consider religion a mental illness/disability…therefore we would be/should be covered by the DDA…reading the comments here really exposes the heart of what most atheists/humanist believe…you have truly proved yourselves to a new fundamentalist religion that is actually more dangerous than Islam!!! something that I thought was impossible….(the job I turned down was a teaching post within the largest trade union in this country..lol…now God placed me within a local council job, and I am free to speak the Gospel message to fellow workers!! Is that not ironic?!!!)
Thanks for providing the quotes, Barrie. I just couldn’t be asked to look them up. And while on the subject, did you see Frank Skinner’s piece in the The Times last week, welcoming “persecution”. Here’s an extract:
“Christians have always worked best as an unpopular minority. We were surely at our most dynamic when we knelt, eyes to Heaven, hands clasped in prayer, with a Colosseum lion bounding towards us …
“That’s why I think Lord Carey, the former Archbishop of Canterbury, is wrong to get his cassock in a twist about changing attitudes to Christianity in this country. He speaks of a ‘strident and bullying campaign’ to marginalise Christianity. But that’s great news. ‘Blessed are ye when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake’ …
“Christians tend to save their best work for the ‘voice in the wilderness’ genre. We are most impressive when operating as a secret sect, kneeling in small, candle-lit rooms and scrawling fishes on walls. I’m enjoying this current dose of persecution. It’s definitely good for the soul.”
Speak it to me, Les, and I’ll tell you where to put it.
@AngieRS…I do believe you have never really had the REAL Gospel message shared with you, it is one of love, compassion and mercy…I will not get into a debate, because I believe and know that Christians should be do’er’s not just sayer’s…and yes many many Christians are hypocrites!!!
I cannot, and will not argue/defend that point, suffice to say…standing in a garage does NOT make me a car, any-more than standing in a church makes me a Christian!!
Les, all we need to know about Christianity is contained in this video.
@Barry Duke…cute…again you have heard the wrong Gospel, in the chance you have heard the Gospel and rejected it, fine it your choice, like mine not to believe what you believe…agreed???
All I can say, is if I am wrong, I have lost nothing (I am happy the way I live)…If I am right then others have lost everything!!
Can we at least agree, we accept each beliefs, respect each beliefs, and stop the bigoted conversation…please let our differences be not be a hindrance to common humanity…we have a common enemy…our selfish desires…
Les, The fact that this case involves retrospective legislation has no bearing on the judgement. All employees in the UK must sign a contract of employment and within this contract there is a clause allowing the employer to change those terms. If any changes are made to employment law then these over-ride any existing contracts of employment. What this stupid bigot Ladele wants – and other religious idiots like her – is to be exempt from this new egalitarian legislation. It is simple, if you don’t like doing a job leave.
When I was an employer I employed a guy part time who turned out couldn’t keep his mouth shut about his imaginary friend to my customers – I fired him because of this and also because he was a useless twat. If I should employ people again I’ll never, ever employ anyone who has god disease.
Les – you are arguing like an atheist! “If I am wrong I have lost nothing. I am happy the way I live.” But according to Muslims, for instance, if you are wrong you have lost EVERYTHING, because not only has your whole life been wasted, but you are going to Hell! You are employing Pascal’s Wager again, which has been demonstrated to be completely illogical for this very reason, viz that there have been so many “gods” in human history that the likelihood is that you are going to end up believing in the wrong one!! (Diderot did, in fact, say “an Imam could reason the same way”.)
@barriejohn…maybe I said it wrong!! Hey I am only human!!! No…I believe Jesus is the only way…full stop…What I say about belief is thus…I know now that God is real…and you are wrong…but if I was wrong I lose nowt!! But it is not cop out…it is not an excuse, eternity is a reality…and I will still love my fellow human as Jesus commanded…hell knows, that what has happened to my family in the last two years has been enough to hate all humans (myself included)!! but God is good!!!
Lillian’s lips seem to project a lifetime of disappointment.
Les: If you’d been born in Saudi Arabia you’d be saying “Allah is great, and all those who refuse to obey him are cursed”!
@barriejohn….no mate..you still don’t get it…learn to separate, discern…you are trying to twist what I say….that is why resistance is futile!!! lol…K gotta go…maybe catch up later?? ps born in ireland as a catholic, grew up here (in england) as a marxist!!! now figure me out!!! (no i not a tory!!! lol)…………..
“you have truly proved yourselves to a new fundamentalist religion that is actually more dangerous than Islam!!!”
I’m sorry, but you’re talking rubbish mate. I don’t see any atheists/humanists strapping on explosives and destroying themselves and as many other innocent lives as they can.
As expressed there, it sounds really bad. Requesting alternative duties is an act of gross misconduct? Giving out confidential employment details is ok? The woman was wrong, but this is surely vindictive.
Brian,
While it is wrong to give out confidential information, that also depends on the context. If they were issuing an informative opinion that gay couples should not approach this woman as she would lambast them, or even ignore them, then I feel they were well within their rights. Those couples shouldn’t have to put up with some proselytizing, bleating, whining CUNT who wants nothing better than for them to go back in the closet and return with people of the opposite sex. If it was other personal information, well, I think it’s funny that she had sex outside marriage, and bore a child, and yet claims that others violate the arrangements of sex and marriage. If she wants to hold others to that standard, then let herself be burned at the stake for her own violation. Hypocritical bitch.
I’ll be the first to admit that I have made some serious mistakes. However, I am willing to admit that I’ve made them, try to make amends, teach and help people with theirs’ (and not from my high horse. If somebody doesn’t want my help, I’m perfectly fine with leaving them to it, such as not offering my opinion unless asked for). And, though I do have a short temper, I am quick to forgive and forget as well. Also, I don’t consider sexual orientation, preference, or gender as a disability. Nor do I give two shits what religion you practice, SO LONG AS YOU KEEP IT TO YOURSELF!
Les Healy,
Though you are welcome here (currently, at least), you should expect to be raked over the coals every time you open your mouth. We, as a group, don’t recognize your god. Nor do we recognize any god. You claim that we are hateful, spiteful people. I’d suggest you try growing up as an atheist in this world of “tolerance,” and see just how much shit you get. Fortunately, I haven’t received too much myself, but I will stand up for others who have, just as I hope they will support me should I require it. Numbers matter.
After a few hours calming down, plus some good Mexican food, I realize that some of my above statements could be seen differently from my intentions. I am in no way connected with the administration of this site, nor do I claim to have any sway over the banning of contributors or posters. I just wanted to point out a trend on all sites of trolls eventually being scrapped from the list of acceptable submitters.
Also, I do think it wrong that they released some personal information about her, if it was anything other than related to her work or her own hypocrisy in standing up for “Christian values” in the face of trying to inject her bigotry into her workplace.
Les, I call you disingenuous. You claim to be righteous, a “good Christian,” whatever the hell that is. Yet, pressed to the point, especially seeing you as a Christian troll in an Atheist website, I bet you would state that the Bible is the inerrant word of Yahweh. Anyone who supports that book as fact, philosophy, or moral justification, deserves to be ridiculed and mocked. Should they attempt to force said views on the rest of us, which the Bible tells you to do, they should be roundly tarred and featherred.
Les,
There is only one thing more repulsive than a christian and that’s the christian that plays the victim card.
For centuries the christians, along with the rug butters in the east, had the ultimate power, and people lived in fear and ignorance. Now, thanks to the internet and other media, people can, rightly or wrongly, freely express their opinions to a wider audience. And you lot hate people who can think for themselves, as we can happily point out the massive holes in your logic.
Here’s a parting thought. Have you ever had an athiest come to your door and try to convert you? I think the answer is a resounding no. And that is due to the fact we are simply content to keep to ourselves, not forcing our stuff down others throats. I always feel when you lot start going on about YOUR god, that there is a massive seed of doubt in your heads.
Les, sounds to me like you’re just covering your arse, mate – that your faith is really just an insurance policy against possible eternal damnation.
Well, the good news is there is no such thing. You have been lied to. It doesn’t exist. Not at all. It’s all just a fairy tale.
So stop fretting about it, step out from under the gloomy shadow of religion and enjoy your time in the sun. Honestly, you’ll find it is so liberating!
I should have thought it a simple principle – if you won’t perform the duties of your position then quit. If you won’t quit then you might reasonably expect to be fired. It also seems to me that it is not possible for an employee in a government position, with a duty to provide services to all members of the public equally, to decide not to provide those services to certain members of the public based on his/her personal disapproval of their conduct. If this principle were to be upheld it wold lead to complete breakdown – would the police only respond to accidents involving a particular class of people or even just people they only personally liked? Well you can see where this would go, can’t you?
Les Healy wrote: “…and yes many many Christians are hypocrites!!!”. But obviously Les does not consider himself among them. A little christian humility wouldn’t hurt, Les. Remember the mote and beam!!!
This womans religious rights were NOT being comprimised by having to issue marriage certificates. Her rights do NOT make the LAWS regarding gay union invalid, and she works for an agency that issues them. It is her obligation to issue them. She has no right to deny what is, by law, theirs to demand.
Her religious rights only extend until they are at cross purposes with another persons human rights.
She was absolutely right to have had her job threatened as a result. If she refuses to do her job, then she should be let go.
Issue the certificates, or get fired.
Believe what you want, but do it in your own time and stop pretending that everyone else should kow tow to that.
To the newest troll: Before Nurse Ratched discovers your whereabouts and drags you back to the Cuckoo’s Nest, I urge you to get in touch with me. I have a bridge for sale in Brooklyn that I think will interest you.
fuck christians