A HANDFUL of Pakistani Muslim youths are beginning to question the existence of God – and in the process are giving up Islam to become atheists.
Still a small number, the trend – according to this report – seems to be telling of pressures that the image of militant Islam has had on them.
A Facebook group has been launched for Pakistan’s agnostics and atheists by Hazraat NaKhuda, a former Pakistani Muslim.
At last count, the group had over a 100 members.
In a thread started on the discussion board on “How did you become an atheist”, Hazrat writes:
I used to be a practicing Muslim. I used to live in Saudi Arabia. I have done two Hajs and countless Umrahs. Used to pray five times a day.
When I turned 17-18, I realized that the only reason I was a Muslim was because my parents were Muslims.
Hazrat is a young computer programmer from Lahore.
Ahmed Zaidi (name changed), another member, posted on the discussion board:
I’m an agnostic simply because I see little or no evidence for the existence of God. Some time ago I decided that I’d never believe anything unless it has a firm basis in reason and as far as I know (and I admit I know very little and that there’s much to be learnt), there’s little or no evidence for the existence of God.
The group, which is open strictly to members, has young Pakistani students studying in New York University to Oxford University to the prestigious Lahore University of Management Sciences as members.
Saeed Ahmad (name changed), who used to be a “practicing Ahmedi Muslim”, started questioning his beliefs at the age of 17, and Nawab Zia (name changed) wrote that the moot question is not “how did you become an atheist” but “how did you become a believer”.
He wrote:
I was a born atheist like every human being until my parents corrupted me with faith. Every child is born free and pure.
Ali Rana (name changed), who loved Islamic preacher Zakir Naik and hated author Salman Rushdie, has had a change of heart too.
He now thinks Naik is an “idiot” and Rushdie a genius.
There are other threads on how the members “wasted” their years as theists.
If there’s just one good reason to ditch Islam, it’s the hysterical ravings of the numpty in the video below, who warns non-believers of what awaits them in the grave: angels wielding a hammer of “thteel”, 90 “thnakes”, each with nine heads, and a particularly venomous scorpion.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ze5jS5ligqU[/youtube]
The Freethinker was founded in 1881 by GW Foote, an outspoken critic of religion. After the publication of 
September 6th, 2010 at 10:25 pm
Good on them. Pakistanis and Indians were the same “race” (I don’t believe in the concept…) 70 years ago. Since partition only one thing divides them. Ultranutty Islam for the Pakistanis, equally nutty yet less evil Hinduism in India.
Compare the two states as they are today…
Even though we are only shown the scumbags in Pakistan there are plenty of decent people there, may their numbers increase and Pakistan can become a nation that adds to humanity as opposed to dragging it back towards the Cro-Magnon era as it does now…
(Shame there’s only 100 members, but I love them all…)
September 6th, 2010 at 11:16 pm
Well done lads (and ladies, perhaps). I appreciate why they would wish to keep their group closed. They are right to be cautious. But if I find it and I can send a message of support to these brave people. Then I will most certainly do so.
September 6th, 2010 at 11:27 pm
Well it’s a small start but it is a start and it can only get bigger so good luck to them
September 7th, 2010 at 2:32 am
I’d like to bring to your attention the existence if the Council of ex-Muslims of Britain DB.
http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/
Like The Freethinker, it is numbered among the friends of my favourite discussion board.
David B
September 7th, 2010 at 2:48 am
These are brave people as I understand that Islam insists upon the death sentence for apostates. There are plenty of rabid Mo-rons in Pakistan who seem to live only for this opportunity to perform allah’s work.
I do think this is the thin end of a wedge that will take generations to complete its task. My fear is that fundamentalist outrages will become more extreme as they see their grip on Pakistani society progressively loosened. We laugh at the utterances of xians in Britain that again is a symptom of their recognition of them losing the argument.
It’s interesting that many of the Facebook members are ex-pats. As a wholesaler who supplies many Asian businesses I’ve anecdotal evidence that their faith does indeed slip when not subject to the social pressures of their homeland. I’m sure there are many repressed questioners out there.
September 7th, 2010 at 5:34 am
I hope this conversion is not a rebel against present circumstances. It should be more influenced by indepth study of philosophy and theology. Sometimes converted atheists are rebel and become more fundamentalist than a religious person.
September 7th, 2010 at 8:33 am
Nadia: Most rational people do not need to carry out any “in depth” studies to ascertain that religion is a pile of bullshit concocted with the sole purpose of controlling a supine and submissive populace!
September 7th, 2010 at 9:04 am
Shouldn’t that last bit be – a particularly venemouth thcorpion. ?
September 7th, 2010 at 10:20 am
An further encouraging step. I liked the comment that “I am only a Muslim because I was born a Muslim.” You can say the same with christians in their various sects, and other religions. Do fundie christians really think the would be christians if they were born Hindus. This is so obvious.
An American fundie said that I was therefor an atheist because I was born into an atheist family. Not so. Like must people here I guess I was reared as a christian. I was an adolescent before I began reading books that exposed the contradictions and incredibility of religion. And that’s the difference. And if I found the evidence to change again I would. Religionuts know their religion is “true” and spend their lives in mental contortions to justify that.
September 7th, 2010 at 11:42 am
Lets hope we see this group and others like it grow, though I have a feeling the Pakistani government will close down their website as “anti islamic”, as Pakistan is now in receipt of large amounts of western aid, may I suggest that western governments make it a condition of that aid that they don’t close down secularist, pro-freedom, blasphemeous etc websites and publications ?
September 7th, 2010 at 12:43 pm
Nadia.
An “indepth study of religion and philosophy” you say. I wonder what religion you have in mind? And what philosophy? I think you need neither. All they have to do is examine behaviour. The thousands of honour killings when a young woman refuses to obey her parents; the grisly business of female genital mutilation, the fatwas against free speech, the floggings, the beheadings, the brutish behaviour of the religious leaders.
The rebels are well out of this sewer of superstious and cruel nonsense. They have found the sweet smell of freedom. You should try it yourself, Nadia. You might be surpised at the delights you find.
September 7th, 2010 at 1:33 pm
Quite so, Broga. The most liberating moment I have ever had is the very moment I cut out the last remnants of doubt about the non-existence of a ‘god’.
Some study of theology only helped me to distrust all religions, but the bloody entrails of faith were still there, manifested as fear of being wrong, of devine punishment. But as Broga and Dawkins have put it so well, this is ridiculous. Having no fear of being wrong that there’s no Zeus, Thor or any other invisible fairy in the sky, it was quite rational to apply the same attitude towards the god that I was taught about as a child.
That people from, or more impressively living in, Pakistan come to similar conclusions and are willing to share that experience, is deeply heartening. I wish them safe passage through life.
“Much” as they say, “respect.”
September 7th, 2010 at 1:37 pm
Nadia,
The balance of evidence shows, overwhelmingly, that there cannot be a god. No study required. Try treating religion like Father Xmas, a nice story when you are young, but one from which you are gradually told the truth as you get older.
September 7th, 2010 at 2:14 pm
This is another very funny version of that instructional video. “Logic and common sense” my arse: if your head has already been split open by that enormous hammer then you’re not going to be much bothered by “snakes from hell”, are you?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yechcX4mPYs
“This is a true story by the way”.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha
September 7th, 2010 at 2:30 pm
MrMonist – Pakistanis and Indians were the same nationality, not ‘the same race’. They were both Indians until two areas of India were partitioned off, one (East Pakistant) becoming modern day Bangladesh, the other (West Pakistan) modern day Pakistan.
Pakistanis and Indians are still indeed of the same race – Asians, or South Asians if you want to be particular – and recognise the concept of race, that is.
Ethnically most Pakistanis are Punjabis, as are most Indians living along the border. The Punjab region is mainly in Pakistan and was historically a very mixed regions in terms of religion. After partition the Sikhs and Hindus north of the border were forced south whilst Muslims were forced in the opposite direction. So yes, religion is a major factor in that corner of the world.
It’s certainly not the only one – politics, finance, the aftermath of Empire are all very important too.
That said a Punjabi from Jalandhar in India will have far, far, far more in common with a Punjabi from Lahore in Pakistan, being relatively near neighbours, than either will have in common with most Bangladeshis, despite Pakistanis and Bangladeshis sharing belief n Islam. A Sikh Punjabi eats identical food, listens to the exact same music, speaks essentially the same language, even does the same folk dances as a Pakistani Punjabi.
How a Bangladeshi Muslim practices Islam can be radically different from a Pakistani Muslim. Their food is quite unlike each others, their language, music and customs are different.
Shared ethnicity and culture always matters more than religion in everyday living. A Punjabi will identify more readily with another Punjabi, be they Pakistani Muslim or Indian Hindu, than with a Gujurati – even if of their religion. Yet people who are near identical will turn on each other when religious cranks fan the flames.
September 7th, 2010 at 2:49 pm
Interesting article. I recently returned from Egypt where I lived for around four years, on and off. My partner, who is Egyptian, left Islam a while after meeting me. Along the course we have met many Egyptian atheists and apostates, through the net or otherwise, and even people we met in day to day encounters, through work etc, who became our friends would later tell us that they are secret unbelievers.
It’s surprising, really, but when you think about it, the only reason that there “aren’t” more atheists in these areas is because of the legal and social barriers…. for example, it’s a crime in Egypt to leave Islam, as is trying to convince someone to do so.
Atheists exist in large numbers, but they are not allowed to express their beliefs. It is very dangerous to do so, and given the sheer magnitude of the brainwashing and opression that goes on there, it’s even more of an acheivement that some are able to break free from the chains of religion.
I gathered info on all this in my survey, you can check it out on my blog
x
September 7th, 2010 at 3:12 pm
That Youtube video is funny and depressing at the same time.
How emotionally and intellectually stunted do you have to be to take such ideas seriously?
September 7th, 2010 at 3:50 pm
Urmensch: It really does look like some long-lost Monty Python sketch. “And ONE THCORPION!” I was half-expecting him to say: “Cwoothify them”!!
September 7th, 2010 at 4:26 pm
Carasek
I think most of us here have felt that sense of freedom, excitement even. I butted out early in my life but until then I was taught that god was watching me and knew what I was doing. The first clue for me that something didn’t quite fit was when I read the contention that god couldn’t be all loving and all powerful at the same time. Once that slid into my adolescent mind I really wanted to do some serious reading and exploration. What I discovered, of course, was the iniquitous swamp of lies, cruelty and hypocrisy that is religion.
September 7th, 2010 at 4:44 pm
I happen to know quite some, self-proclaimed, Muslims who wouldn’t be considered such by their co-religionists. They drink alcohol, eat pork, don’t pray, don’t go to Mosque, and some of them are gay. And they cling to ‘their’ religion, not able to understand me being an Atheist. While they are, at least, agnostics. But I guess it’s the same with most religions; people go with the flow and pay some lip-service, but don’t have the balls or opportunity to say it out loud: “I don’t need your religion.”.
September 7th, 2010 at 5:25 pm
Brave people – if only there were more. One day, however, I have no doubt that there will be a tipping point, a domino effect when people will realise that they have nothing to fear, that nothing bad is going to happen to them if they listen to their heads and hearts instead of the lunatics who want to control them, I hope this is a kind of start.
September 7th, 2010 at 8:18 pm
Broga
Aye, after having been I suppose agnostic for years, it has been the most wonderful period to just cast free of the sky fairies, fear and superstitions for good. I had long since decided that if there was a god, he was a bastard (omnipotent/omniscient.. but not benevolent), but I’m much happier with reasoning that there is no god at all.
There probably isn’t any meaning to life apart from what we make of it. I’m happy enough with that. When I do ‘good’ things it isn’t because I’ll get some reward, or avoid punishment, in an afterlife. I’m just doing something good. Which is enough.
Religions can, well, fuck right off. As can Ratty.
September 7th, 2010 at 9:12 pm
The gods can either take away evil from the world and will not, or being willing to do so they cannot, or they neither can nor will, or lastly they are both willing and able. If they have the will to remove evil and cannot, then they are not omnipotent. If they can but will not, then they are not benevolent. If they are neither willing nor able, then they are neither omnipotent nor benevolent. Lastly, if they are both able and willing to annihilate evil, how does it exist?
September 7th, 2010 at 10:25 pm
These are bunch of BASTARDS funded by JEWS to make propaganda against muslims.
September 8th, 2010 at 12:22 am
“OH – MATRON!!”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slCUBrmFGGI
September 9th, 2010 at 7:40 pm
Looks like the fire dept. is going to give him a hose job if he pulls a lighter out.
The fire department’s efforts will likely not help. If this guy wants to continue with his objective he can just as easily pop the
lid on a septic tank and film dumping the books in sewage.
This is only fodder to sell comercials. The extreme end of this is that the act will show that acid and rock throwing muslims
are too anti-social to entertain free thought and/or the buckling of Americans to give in to fear rather than point to the
freedom to express anger over the worst attack ever on their homeland. Let him vent. Mohammadians who are offended
by this haven’t read the book they profess to which they cling.
Far be it from the muslim to be expected to brush off actions criticizing their law, though burning our flag is their tradition.
The guy has a little reading to do regarding the approach to those on Mars Hill. Though I understand his frustration, I don’t
see his wisdom.
September 9th, 2010 at 10:50 pm
It always helps if you can get your comment on the right thread, Kevin!
September 12th, 2010 at 8:00 pm
If you think that you’re an “atheist” enough to answer my curosity, please read on:
Atheists say that people who believe in God, or in particular, the Muslims…are “a bunch of stupid idiots”…i saw the video, and I can pretty well understand why this guy was mocking him…just because he’s better off believing what he’s been taught and not to question…I call him innocent…it not he who’s wrong, it is he who taught him only to preach the punishments and in a manner which no person having even a little sense can understand.and i know that the faith Islam is full of people who always preach hate like this, in a literal sense, and btw hate is not when anybody asks you to stand against something which is clearly wrong for humanity…you know what the real problem is?…most Muslims today have no advanced knowledge in science but the Atheists, after getting a masters in Darwinism starts pretending like they know everything and lol…that they are the “free thinkers”…But there still are some people who do have advanced knowledge of science and faith collectively, who can say everything with complete logic so it will make complete sense to everybody and who can make Atheists believers, like Zakir Naik, and btw i would love to know how this guy calls him a “stupid”, and haha Rushdie a “genius”, if that has even a thing to do with logic and science…I hate it when some people call us a bunch of “idiots” and we can not answer them back only due to our shortage of knowledge in science…but no worries, i guess i have questions that you can not answer.
coming towards the point…you guys know science and “theology” right?…can any Atheist here please explain to me please, if he has ever heard of the Cambrian Explosion, how did those creatures just appear almost suddenly, if we see time in a broader sense ie:2 minuits if we contract the history of time in just a scale of 24 hours, without any previous records of ascendants which goes against the laws of slow and steady evolution clearly and which points towards an intelligent creation?…well that is some mind blowing scientific finding isn’t it? Now let me teach you guys bit of a science too
for those who have seen this video and started laughing right away, for those who believe that they, and not me, lol evolved from “apes”: you should do a little bit of a research and it will become evident that the theory of evolution itself is full of flaws…and Darwin was a guy from 1800s…he in his book writes that he is not sure that what he’s proposing to be a well established scientific fact that could be published in a scientific journal and not just another gibberish theory…the thing is not that mutations randomly occur, the thing is that among all the possible amino acid combinations, the probability of generating just one short protein by mutation is roughly…”one in 10 raised to the power haha, 74″…THAT IS(incase you guys are not familiar with any maths lol):only one chance in a trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion…lol i can’t even write this many zeros here…don’t believe me?here read this:
http://winteryknight.wordpress.....by-chance/
this guy’s a microbiologist and he has published his findings in the journal of microbiology.your theory of evolution is a FAIL.
September 12th, 2010 at 8:22 pm
I don’t know that whether my comments will be allowed to be posted after moderation or not, but let me tell you this that Islam is a (in theory not in practice) religion of love, freedom, peace and “humanity”, and humanity doesn’t mean to love those who rape and murder mind you…and curosity and questioning has always been encouraged…now if you say that just because it is encouraged to punish those who do mischief on purpose and with intentions solely to degrade and disrespect people, islam is a religion of hate…it is you who are stupids…i mean what on earth would you do with a guy who raped your daughter or sister?…and even with your well established “punishment systems and very active police”…west has the highest crime rate in the world…ever cared to look up for Saudi-Arabia where Islamic system is practically imlemented?haha…and trust me, whatever you get from the mainstream media about islam, it’s mostly full of bull-shit.and to tell you, hadith, saying of the prophet Mohammed, were started to be compiled 300 years after his death and thus has a high chance of fabrication in them…we all know and believe that…but Quran is something that, if you study neutrally and with a desire to understand, you can not come up with a single unscientific, illogical thing.
anyway…well, if you genuinely want to study and know the truth, i suggest you go and research about the string theory and the other dimensions. i hope that will clear your mind a lot about what has been said in this video…the universe is not only what you can see with your eyes.
peace
October 2nd, 2010 at 4:56 am
Imagine – You can say your an atheist because you want peace in this world. come on Imagine … it’s easy if you try.
October 4th, 2010 at 1:30 pm
All theists are fools, liars or hypocrites. Often all three at the same time. Islam is the most evil of religions followed very closely by christianity in all of its twisted sects.
Most of the problems of the world are, and always have been, caused by religion. Mankind will never truly be free until the black yoke of religion is lifted by the clear light of truth and rational thinking.
Today, we are engaged in WW III. It is the Muslim fanatics against the rest of the world. This war will not end until one side or the other re all dead. Even then, the winning side will turn upon itself and continue the war until there are only “true believers” left. Yes, that’s pretty depressing, but look around, that’s what is really happening.