A SMALL US church says it will defy international condemnation and go ahead with plans to burn copies of the Koran on the 9/11 anniversary.
According to the BBC, the top US commander in Afghanistan warned that troops’ lives would be in danger if the Dove World Outreach Center in Florida went ahead.
And the US Attorney General, Eric Holder, says the church’s plan is “idiotic and dangerous”.
Pastor Jones: Defiant in the face of international condemnation of his koran-burning plan
Despite having a congregation of just 50, the plans of the church in Gainesville have gained worldwide notoriety, sparking demonstrations in Afghanistan and Indonesia.
Gen David Petraeus, the top US commander in Afghanistan, said on Monday that the action could cause problems:
Not just in Kabul, but everywhere in the world. It is precisely the kind of action the Taliban uses and could cause significant problems.
The Vatican, the Obama administration and Nato have also expressed concern over the plan.
White House spokesman Robert Gibbs said on Tuesday that:
Any type of activity like that that puts our troops in harm’s way would be a concern.
Nato chief Anders Fogh Rasmussen blasted the plans, telling reporters that burning Korans violated the Nato alliance’s “values”.
The loopy Pastor Terry Jones – organiser of the burning and author of a book entitled Islam is of the Devil – has said he understands the general’s concerns but that it was:
Time for America to quit apologizing for our actions and bowing to kings. We must send a clear message to the radical element of Islam.
Another pastor at the church told the BBC that members intended to burn several hundred copies of the holy book on Saturday evening, the ninth anniversary of the 9/11 attacks, in defiance of an order by the city not to hold an open air bonfire.
A group of Muslims protested outside the US Embassy in Indonesia, outraged by the Florida church's plans to burn the Koran on the anniversary of the Sept 11 terrorist attacks.
In Kabul on Monday, about 500 protesters chanted “long live Islam” and “death to America” as they set fire to an effigy of Jones.
The role of Islam in America has become a hot button issue with social and political implications.
While most Americans would probably take issue with exhortations to burn the Koran, there is clearly widespread concern about the influence of Islam.
Protests over the planned location of an Islamic centre close to Ground Zero in New York, and similar controversy in Murfreesboro, Tennessee have highlighted popular anxiety about Islam in America.
Earlier this year, an opinion poll found that 53 percent of Americans view Islam unfavourably, with only 42 percent viewing the religion favourably.
Reports about young American Muslims being radicalised on the internet have helped to stoke fears about the nature of a religion indelibly associated, since 9/11, with a violent assault on the US.
Far from subsiding over time, anxiety seems to have deepened. As a result, American Muslims say they feel more isolated than at any time since the 2001 attacks.
The Freethinker was founded in 1881 by GW Foote, an outspoken critic of religion. After the publication of 
September 8th, 2010 at 1:00 am
Ah, book-burning. That quaint old custom practised by people whose reading ability stops at ‘See Spot run,’ anyway.
Business plan: Buy up loads of ‘seconds’ of every religious book I can think of and stockpile them, then sell them to fundies of the opposing religions whenever they feel the Fahrenheit 451 urge.
September 8th, 2010 at 1:13 am
i absulutely love the pissing match between all the differn’t religions over whose right whose the terrorist whose the peado etc it’s even more hilarious than the pissing matches between all the factions of the same religion.
one day hopefully people will realise that it’s all the same bullshit in a differn’t package.
September 8th, 2010 at 1:52 am
I agree that this could affect the troops and again book burning is always bad.
But this event speaks volumes.
The xtians are all up in burning paper for what???
The IsLames are all up in temper because some xtians are going to burn some paper with ink on it.
So one group of delusional bat-schite crazies all pissy about another group of delusional bat-schite crazies burning some paper….I wish there was a way to publicly stand up and point at both groups and lol until they both go away in embarrassment.
September 8th, 2010 at 2:32 am
I’m all for burning the Quran. Additionally, I would like to see the Bible, the Book of Mormon and Dianetics thrown to the flames for keeping mankind stupid.
The founder of the Freethinker was imprisoned for a year for puplishing cartoons questioning the religion sentiment of the time. over a hundred years later Muslims are silencing cartoonists through threat and intimidation. For instance, the great grandson of Vincent Van Gogh, Theo Van Gogh, was killed for the cartoons he published of Muhammad. Another cartoonist by the name of Kurt Westergaard was attacked by an axe-wielding Muslim for the cartoons he produced. Just recently South Park was censored because of the threats made by Muslims. Islam is antithetical to the freedom of speech. The West needs to stand up and burn Qurans in defence of freedom of speech; after all, the Imams can’t put fatwas on all of us.
September 8th, 2010 at 2:49 am
@L.Long
Unfortunately you’d probably end up in court charged with ‘victimisation,’ or such. Any form of criticism is anathema to them, even while they feel free to point fingers at everyone else’s silly ideas.
What they don’t understand is that they’re living proof that the evolution of intelligence is (a)an actual fact and (b)an ongoing process. Sometimes I wonder if ‘sapiens’ was really a good choice of name.
September 8th, 2010 at 3:31 am
I think it would be more to the point if these folk actually went to Taliban land and did a public burning there. That would really show that they have the balls to be stupid as mud.
September 8th, 2010 at 3:31 am
These people are in their rights to burn their own qurans. They should go ahead even only for the effect this will have on the “religion of peace” zealots. Let the world see them as the murderers these religious nuts are. Ticking bombs just waiting to go off.
What I find particularly stupid is how all these big shots are opining on this affair. Since when is the business of the US Attorney General to characterize *any* religious activity as “idiotic and dangerousâ€? Was he appointed as head of US Department of Religions w/o me hearing about it? Anyway, the magnitude this issue has reached, with the US Attorney General, the White House, the commander of US forces in Afghanistan, the Nato chief – all having to speak out, it just goes on to show how dangerous this religion is. Everybody shits their pants because of a so-called “minority” of Islamic extremists. It is disturbing to see how a “minority” can keep almost a whole world in check, to the point where people not only practice self-censorship, but are praising this nasty religion.
September 8th, 2010 at 3:50 am
Pastor Jones might be just another demented believer,however he has the right to burn the Koran if he so chooses. It’s not his fault if some equally demented believers in a different loony superstition become homicidal at the prospect of the incineration of their sacred book.We should regularly offend Moslems,Christians etc until they get the message to shut up and leave the rest of us alone.
I’m more concerned that,if Jones chickens out,the Islamofascist gangsters will be even more arrogant and insufferable.
The principle at stake here,is that citizens in a liberal democracy, are not required to respect other people’s,or any,religions.
September 8th, 2010 at 4:27 am
@Russel
I’d be more inclined to the belief that any repercussions weren’t his fault if I thought he was doing it for any other reason than to be provocative. While he has every right to do so, that doesn’t absolve him of the responsibility for the obvious consequences of his own actions.
September 8th, 2010 at 5:49 am
@Daz
He’s obviously doing this to be provocative, but I struggle to agree that he should be held particularly responsible for the irrational over-reactions of other religious mentalists. The effect may be worse than shouting, “fire!” in a crowded cinema, but that’s only because the religion of peace ain’t so peaceful.
The most I’d say he’s responsible for is if some bibles get burned in a similar act, because that would be somewhat proportionate.
I have little time for this Christian hater, but doesn’t the principal responsibility for the consequences lie at the hands of the violent, crazed, ignorant religious fascists who will carry out the likely killings/bombings/hate attacks? I don’t subscribe to the line that Theo van Gogh was responsible for his own murder, which isn’t to say that he didn’t make it likely to happen.
This will do a lot of damage to infidel-Islamic relations, Muslims will probably kill people, our troops, politicians and everyone else will find it harder to build bridges (real and metaphysical). However, we’re giving religion a privileged status it doesn’t deserve if we effectively spread the responsibility for their disproportionate over-reactions. Their having no right to not be offended has consequences; sadly when it comes to Islam, this is often measured in blood.
http://neareastpundit.typepad......slam_1.jpg
September 8th, 2010 at 6:49 am
Perhaps we should should all look out our bibles and burn them as well. To long have we suffered from extreme “religious” views from all sides. Why can’t we all live in peace and stop stoking hatered.You don’t need gods to be good person.
September 8th, 2010 at 7:07 am
For those of us who are squeamish about burning books:
It is sufficient to draw a picture of mohammed (maybe with a camel?) on a peace of paper and burn that.
This has nothing to do with Fahrenheit 451, the third Reich or insulting the peasants of Afghanistan.
It is a symbol of Capitalism (my book) Vv. Shariah (our holy book)
@Mike:
I would be against them going to “Taliban Land” to burn the Koran since it is illegal there. However, in America it is not illegal if they have paid for the books and that it the main point!
As to the over-sensitive marshmallows who get all offended, tough. They don’t need an excuse to get violent, they do it anyway.
Pandering to bullies doesn’t ‘cure’ them – it just encourages them.
September 8th, 2010 at 8:18 am
@ Daz,
In my opinion the notion of ‘provocation’ is a rather outdated concept and is perhaps understandable in primitive tribal societies but is incompatible with Western political and social systems.
Whether or not Jones intends to be provocative is not the issue here,I don’t think that Moslems have any right to be ‘provoked’ by infidels.They have been offended by non-believers eating during Ramadan,taking their dogs for a walk or by women wearing shorts in their vicinity. I wouldn’t publically burn the Koran,or deliberately set out to offend the religious,but I still reserve my right to do so if I choose.
We’re all complicit in the creeping Islamization of Western society if we self-censor our behaviour in the face of (1)’multi-culturalism’ or ‘anti-racism’ promoted by the ususual ‘useful idiots’ and (2) bullying by Islamic thugs. We’re dealing with a totalitarian culture that is hostile to liberal democracy.
So I generally agree with ‘Carasek’,we’re going to have to pay the price for our secular liberal societies,it’s about time the average Westerner realized that unpleasant fact.
September 8th, 2010 at 8:51 am
I agree with Jane the most concerning comment to me was made by Hilary Clinton claiming this act to be ‘disrespectful’ to Muslims. Why is it so necessary to respect a religious book that encourages paedoplast marriages, Jihad, beating women and wants the whole world to descend into their abstemious pit of misery? She is now justifying any violent act in the world to be carried out in the name of this backward religion.
September 8th, 2010 at 9:18 am
I’m not keen on burning books, but if you’re going to burn one, the Qur’an’s a good choice. Still, personally I wouldn’t bother. The pastor has a right to do it so let him do it, even if he is something of a nut. Did you know that Kurt Westergaard of Motoon fame is to receive a media award in Germany? This is excellent and unexpected news.
Some other news hot off the press (if there’s an electronic equivalent) relates to the French anti-Islamisation movement. Unfortunately, the organiser of last Saturday’s Grand Apéritif Républicain, Christine Tasin, has been issued with a Facebook fatwa for standing up for French secularism. Let’s hope she remains safe:
http://durotrigan.blogspot.com.....fatwa.html
September 8th, 2010 at 10:06 am
@silly
I disagree – while religion is not entitled to respect (any more than any idea), we should be respectful to Muslim people (and all other people). In this case, Jones’ objective is strictly to upset the {insert racist Muslim term}.
I cannot see how Christianity leads to this action – or at least I haven’t heard Jones’ make the connection. However, I can see how bigoted nationalism and racism leads to this. (Although being a Christian helps with the being a bigot part).
This is fundamentally different from something like “Draw Mohammed” day, as that was a response to the majority of Muslim demanding restriction of other peoples writes to express themselves.
That said, I do love to see the “great” world religions tearing at each other – it demonstrates their true origins.
September 8th, 2010 at 10:06 am
I don’t mind anyone burning ‘holy’ books, but in this world of ours some idiots will get upset and underscore this by going after the local religious minorities, and we know that won’t be pretty. Our parts of the world should be secular and stick to that with regards to all religions.
September 8th, 2010 at 10:23 am
They had an effigy of Pastor Jones! Man – those effigy shops are something aren’t they? I’m in the wrong business – if I knew webdesign was going to lead me to a financial dead end – I’d have shipped out to the unholy lands years ago – and started building me some effigy shops!
September 8th, 2010 at 10:24 am
As usual, those of us who do not live our lives by these ancient books sit in the middle wondering exactly what goes on in the tiny minds of people who do.
September 8th, 2010 at 10:30 am
Jane, you summed it up well – whatever happened to “I don’t agree with a word he says but I will fight for his right to say it”?
American politicians should be standing up for their citizens’ consititutional rights, not trying to appease the fundies.
“Shitting their pants” indeed.
September 8th, 2010 at 10:36 am
If he doesn’t chicken out, and the predicted hell breaks loose, cartoonists had better start buying stamps and envelopes. To send their work to NATO HQ for vetting. Or perhaps they’ll subcontract the work to selected mosques.
September 8th, 2010 at 10:39 am
One lot burns the koran then the other lot burns the bible in return.
I would expect this from kids, not adults demanding respect for their religions. And they wonder why us atheists laugh at them?
Grow up.
September 8th, 2010 at 11:16 am
42% of US citizens view islam favourably, WTF? Who on earth are these people and have you reported the poll accurately?
I find it difficult to imagine anyone approving of islam in the world today unless they were brainwashed into it from an early age. I suppose there are people making a living from other religions who might take a view that they are all in the god biz, it’s better than working and don’t rock the boat, much like our archbishop of Canterbury and politicians who never learned the history of the Danegeld.
September 8th, 2010 at 11:46 am
What we need here is a temperate, rational, world renowned mediator to try to bring some understanding. A man of achievment, scientific and literary renown and who can be guaranteed to be fair in coming to a judgement between religious issues. My nomination is Richard Dawkins with a supporting team of Sam Harris and Barry Duke.
September 8th, 2010 at 12:56 pm
Quote: “42% of US citizens view islam favourably” This does not surprise me. Persons who have a religious belief tend to have empathy with those who follow any religion, but all are united in hostility to atheism. The blame for the rise of islamofascism rests mainly with xtians, jews etc who – with their continuous demand for religious woo to override secular law and common sense – have allowed islam equal space on their bandwagon; and islam being islam wants to chuck the others off. Blame must also be apportioned to the hard Left and their love of cultural relativism – useful idiots indeed.
September 8th, 2010 at 12:57 pm
It won’t just increase Muslim ire against American soldiers, either.
It will also be an excuse to bite the hand that feeds them.
http://www.google.com/hostedne.....FRs0Bf72rQ
September 8th, 2010 at 12:59 pm
Stargraves – I’ve often wondered if there isn’t a niche in the flag market in some countries. They burn flags at the drop of a hat and many of them have a cheap home-made look.
I’d sell them with matches as a kind of kit. You could do flags of the world suitable for any minor offence taken at something one can turn against the whole country for.
You could also do pictures of dogs with a space available to write “Bush†or some other conveniently short name of the enemy du jours. Many protesters seem to find these irresistible and the height of wit.
Effigies might be harder to do. Generic dummies with Mr Potato head style stick-ons might be your answer there.
Everything of course would have to be flammable because it’s one thing threatening war and destruction (again) upon other people burning things but there’s nothing like a good righteous bonfire of the hated symbols of the west to entertain those of the religion of peace.
September 8th, 2010 at 1:36 pm
Just to clarify my earlier comment. What I meant was that he isn’t doing this to make a point, as in the draw Mohammed campaign, he’s just doing it because he wants headlines and knows perfectly well what the reaction will be. In fact I’d say he’s counting on that reaction so as to gain even more headlines. That’s why I think he will be responsible for repercussions, sane or otherwise. If he was making any kind of real point at all I wouldn’t say that. That doesn’t lessen the responsibility of any Islamic fundies for responding likewise or worse, but it doesn’t absolve him either.
None of which should be taken to imply that I think he should be stopped from doing it. I just think its a stupid and irresponsible thing to do.
Hope that clears up any confusion about my meaning.
September 8th, 2010 at 2:14 pm
Just let the rest of us make it a “Burn a Bible” day too, then! I don’t normally approve of the burning of books, but I did make a bonfire of many of mine rather than let them fall into the hands of others and do further damage. Of course, the big weakness with this idiot’s plans is that they can burn as many copies of The Koran as they like and it won’t make a blind bit of difference. Do they believe that there is only room on earth for x copies of the book, or that they are in short supply or something?
September 8th, 2010 at 2:27 pm
This bigot has probably ‘reasoned’ thus…
Christians in Muslim countries like Pakistan or Egypt may be killed after the Koran is burned in America because they’re such easy targets. But he doesn’t care about them because they’re just foreign brown folks, like the Muslim Communist Obama.
American soldiers and civilians in Muslim countries may be killed, but this is a price well worth paying as part of the wider holy war he’s waging. And, after all…
American Muslims will be persecuted and maybe killed as a reaction to Americans being killed in response to the Koran burning. Again, them’s brown folks, not real Americans, so who cares?
Personally, I don’t feel like defending this evil bastard’s right to do anything.
September 8th, 2010 at 2:46 pm
@Daz
I understand exactly what you mean, but…
If I irritate a bear, knowing that it will lash out at me or those around it, then that’s my responsibility. A bear is a bear and it can’t be anything else, so its behaviour is in effect justified and relatively proportionate.
But if I irritate a nazi, or a socialist, a Jew or a Muslim by offending their beliefs, even if I know that their response will be disproportionate, I still think I’m absolved of the responsibility for their actions to the extent that they are disproportionate, however expected they might have been. If their ideology is worth anything it can withstand criticism without recourse to violence and hate.
The problem with this approach lies, I suspect, with the fact that the repercussions are unlikely to land at Pastor Jones’ door. Rather many other people will be caught up in this and be victims of hate crimes, economic sanctions etc. However, as has been said before, this is perhaps the price paid in return for liberal, rational and free systems of law.
That others may pay in Pakistan, Afghanistan or elsewhere without the reciprocal benefits of Western freedoms is regrettable and possibly counter-productive.
@Broga
A mediator needs to add a touch of brevity to lighten up all the hate speech. Were he with us today, the fine gentleman Douglas Adams would have been perfect…
September 8th, 2010 at 2:58 pm
@Carasek.
Ah yes, Douglas Adams. He had some succinct comments on religion which hit hard and true.
Just heard an interview with a former religious correspondent of The Guardian (Radio 4) and he said any remaining religion conviction was removed by that experience. He also said that he was “surprised at the sheer mendacity of the religious people he interviewed.”
They expect special respect, of course, and this is one of Richard Dawkins’ particular and justified gripes.
September 8th, 2010 at 2:59 pm
@Carasek
I agree for the most part. I think we’re just disagreeing over degrees of culpability. Also I think I’ve been phrasing things rather ambiguously. I’ve a stinking head-cold, and I find I’m agonising over word choices that would normally trip straight off the keyboard.
“the fine gentleman Douglas Adams would have been perfect…”
Agreed. We still have Terry Pratchett. Wonder if he’s available…
OT, but did anyone in the UK watch that Jonathan Sacks thing, ‘The Case For God?’ on the beeb the other night? I managed to sit through the first sycophantically banal round of questions before turning off in disgust.
September 8th, 2010 at 3:35 pm
book burnng or banning is as indefensible as infantacide. Jones is nothing more than a white racist, homophobic bigot. I don’t like any religion as they are all nothing more than mythology and those who follow are either brain dead or have IQ’s lower than their ages or both
September 8th, 2010 at 4:29 pm
Stated above….
If I irritate a bear, knowing that it will lash out at me or those around it, then that’s my responsibility. A bear is a bear and it can’t be anything else, so its behavior is in effect justified and relatively proportionate.
This is correct and lets carry it a little further. You can stand in the wood and yell insults at it all day and it will do nothing. And if later when it does kill are you to blame?? No!
He is not poking the the Islamic Bear, he is just yelling in the far away woods.
He is stupidly burning paper and ink! He is not breaking any of their Sorry-ass Laws, which is the reason he can’t go to IsLame Land because they have laws forbidding the act, just as there are countries where the buyBull can’t be burnt.
ExPatriot….
There is a MAJOR BIG difference between burning paper&ink and infanticide. And you are right on with the rest.
September 8th, 2010 at 5:37 pm
If xians really wanted to offend muslims they could shred the books and add the shreds to pig feed.
September 8th, 2010 at 5:43 pm
Just read that Terry Jones spent some time in Europe too (http://www.spiegel.de/internat.....09,00.html) to spread the message of love and peace.
September 8th, 2010 at 7:38 pm
Wow some nut in the US gets a four star General to comment on his nuttiness. The real nuts are the Muslims threatening violence over the nutty action. Not only are they hypocrite’s ( They burn bibles and American flags ) they are thin skinned and 600 years behind other religions who would protest but not resort to extreme violence. My epiphany from this is ” what the hell are we doing there” WE will continue to lose soldiers and they will not change.
September 8th, 2010 at 10:19 pm
It does seem a waste of paper burning books. It would be more productive to recyle the Koran for use as pig bedding. Does anyone know if these moronic Islamic and christian dick-heads can actually read a book? (muslim women excluded). I guess it had to happen sooner or later, book burning in the land of the free!
September 8th, 2010 at 11:08 pm
Barack Obama is as incurably brainwashed a Christian as George W. Bush, Glenn Beck, or Fred Phelps. Anyone who buys into the Big Lie that he is a Muslim is not merely unteachable; he is an embarrassment to whatever group he purports to speak for–probably the Republican Party, since that is the only perversion that thinks Obama is a Communist.
September 9th, 2010 at 12:12 am
Wisdom from Stephen Green – patron saint of seagulls – on the matter:
‘Pastor Jones’ action is extreme, but he is obviously a man of courage and sometimes extreme things have to be done. I can think of nothing more extreme than going to the Cross to bear the sins of others, which was what Jesus Christ did.
More here: http://www.christianvoice.org......ss163.html
Do I detect something of a non sequitur there somewhere?
September 9th, 2010 at 5:55 am
“What have I always believed?
That on the whole, and by and large, if a man lived properly, not according to what any priests said, but according to what seemed decent and honest inside, then it would, at the end, more or less, turn out all right.”
Terry Pratchett (Small Gods)
September 9th, 2010 at 8:10 am
@David McNerney:
Jones’ objective is strictly to upset the {insert racist Muslim term}.
and if he was protesting the burning of bibles in islamic theocracies would that be acceptable?
How come they can blow up churches & embassies, burn the American flag, stone people to death and generally make themselves a pain in the ass for the rest of us, but the minute they claim that their feelings are hurt it’s all oh, you shouldn’t do that.
Even the European newspapers are calling him an islamaphobe and blaming him for the aggressive tendencies of these bullies!
September 9th, 2010 at 11:15 am
Did anyone else see that bloody Clinton woman, who represents the only remaining superpower, saying that what was required was “Respect”. WTF? “Respect” for the desert death cult? I don’t think so.
September 9th, 2010 at 1:43 pm
I have always admired Hilary Clinton but when it comes to religion she is as devout as Bush, Blair, Beck and all the other Deluded. She and Bill are Methodists.
September 9th, 2010 at 9:12 pm
A Tragical Church Parody Ad From DC Douglas
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....ntrinter=1
September 9th, 2010 at 11:06 pm
The fool has announced that he has cancelled the book-burning, on the understanding that the people behind the so-called “9/11 Mosque” are going to build it somewhere else – Saudi Arabia presumably!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-11255366
September 10th, 2010 at 10:17 am
you dumb a$$ liberals, you understand nothing. feck off
September 10th, 2010 at 3:16 pm
Are you being serious Mark? If so I’m REALLY pleased that we are pissing you off so badly – hahahahaha!!!
September 14th, 2010 at 10:36 pm
joder con los musulmanes asesinos como se las gastan . me importa un bledo la blibia el coran etc etc pero no se puede tener miedo a estos H-P DE INTEGRISTAS -tarde o temprano nos tendremos que enfrentar o cuando sean mayoria . ( se reproducen como ratas )democraticamente españa se trasformara en una republica islamica Ahora estamos a tiempo
Por una españa laica moros a la moreria