THE UK gay humanist charity, the Pink Triangle Trust (PTT) has robustly refuted the claim by the Pope that the Nazis were atheists.
In his opening address to the Queen at Holyroodhouse in Edinburgh yesterday, the lying old toad referred to:
Q. How do you tell when Ratzinger lies? A. When you see his lips move
A Nazi tyranny that wished to eradicate God from society.
But the PTT’s secretary George Broadhead said:
This is rubbish. Hitler himself was born, and remained all his life, a Catholic. The church never excommunicated him. In 1933, he signed a concordat with the Vatican. The church agreed to keep priests and religion out of politics while Hitler, among other things,granted complete freedom to confessional schools throughout the country – a notable victory for German Catholics.
Broadhead added:
The Vatican even asked God to bless the new German Reich! It ordered all German bishops to swear allegiance to the Nazi regime with an oath that ended, ‘In the performance of my spiritual office and in my solicitude for the welfare and the interest of the German Reich, I will endeavor to avoid all detrimental acts which might endanger it’.
So much for the Nazis being atheist. The Vatican was fully, if not enthusiastically, complicit with the Nazi regime.
And he pointed out:
In Italy the Vatican state was set up under an accord (the Lateran Treaty) reached between the Fascist dictator, Benito Mussolini, and the Catholic Church in 1929. The accord not only created the state of the ‘Vatican City’ with full diplomatic rights but made a substantial financial payment to the Church and recognised Catholicism as Italy’s official religion. Bishops took an oath of allegiance to the Fascist dictatorship and the clergy were ordered never to oppose it or incite their flock to harm it. Prayers were said in churches for Mussolini and for fascism. Priests became members of the Fascist Party and were even its officers.
The history of the Catholics’ collaboration with the German and Italian Fascist regimes is irrefutable.
If further evidence was needed to support Broadbroad, one need look no further than to an article entitled The Educational Principles of the New Germany, published in a Nazi magazine for women, Frauen Warte.
The cover of the Nazi magazine which contained the article on education. The caption to the left of the picture of the toothy Aryan lad says Germany's youth belong to the Führer!
In a section dealing with religion, it said:
Life comes from God and returns to God. All life and all races follow God’s ordinances. No people and no race can ignore them. We want the German youth to again recognize the religious nature of life. They must realize that God wants the individual as well as the whole people, and that they lose contact with life when they lose contact with God!
God and nation are the two foundations of the life of the individual and the community. We want no shallow and superficial piety, but rather a deep faith that God guides the world, that he controls it, and a consciousness of the relationship between God and each individual, and between God and the life of the people and the fatherland.
The National Socialist state will promote such a deeply religious educational system. We want parents to support and strengthen this by honesty and by good example.
Race, military training, leadership, religion! These are the four unshakable foundations of the new German National Socialist education!
UPDATE: Public gaffes made by Pope Benedict and his retired senior adviser Cardinal Kasper, in aligning atheism with Nazism and describing Britain’s social mix as being ‘like a Third World country’, show that the church needs to re-learn how to communicate by listening, not lecturing, says the religion and society think-tank Ekklesia.
The pontiff has misjudged his wider audience by pandering to exaggerated fears of antagonism to religion, rather than building bridges of understanding and cooperation between the peacemaking and justice-loving heart of Christianity and those of other or no faith committed to doing good in a plural society.
The Freethinker was founded in 1881 by GW Foote, an outspoken critic of religion. After the publication of 
September 17th, 2010 at 7:50 pm
I remain amazed that this contemptible liar is able to swan about the UK as an honoured guest. He is funded in large part by taxes paid by the majority who loathe him. He is a destructive influence on much that is true or decent. He inflicts endless suffering on the weak and the poor: the affluent ignore the old fraud. He avoids challenge behind the cowardly nonsense that he is the head of a state. Apart from that he would be arrested a dozen times over. His bizarre bigotry pours from his mouth like shit from an open sewer as he rushes to condemn, to judge, to victimise. And while this vicious nonsense continues, based on nothing but bizarre superstition, his victims struggle to get a hearing. He is fawned on for reasons that defy understanding.
There will be an accounting for all this. There has to be. he cannot win because he lies and is offensive to rational thought. Atheism will defeat him because it is rationa
September 17th, 2010 at 8:02 pm
PZ Myers at Pharyngula has put a whole page of Hitler quotes on his website, all of which show that He was no atheist.
September 17th, 2010 at 8:03 pm
“I am convinced that I am acting as the agent of our Creator. By fighting off the Jews, I am doing the Lord’s work.”
Reichstag speech, 1938
“Christ was the greatest early fighter in the battle agsinst the world enemy, the Jews…. The work Christ started, I, Adolf Hitler, will conclude.”
Christmas speech, 1926
September 17th, 2010 at 8:03 pm
I am in total agreement with Broga’s comment. The Pope is a bad scary joke of some sort and nothing more. Noxious.
September 17th, 2010 at 8:11 pm
I’ll be at the Protest the Pope March tomorrow.
September 17th, 2010 at 8:12 pm
I was incandescent at the nazi remark. Either the pope is stupid and ignorant or he is a manipulative liar.
I vote for the latter
September 17th, 2010 at 8:20 pm
Many (godless) commentators are suggesting that it is unfair to criticize the pope for being a member of the Hitler Youth. They had near conscription at the time, and he really couldn’t have refused – so I tend to agree that it is below the belt to raise it.
However, if you were a part of the Hitler Youth, then calling other people Nazis is not a good idea. Stalin works, Mao works, Pol Pot works – Hitler is a complete no no.
September 17th, 2010 at 8:22 pm
Switched the TV on this evening to see more fawning coverage on BBC news. Anne Widdecome was describing Ratz as having an “aura of holiness”
I came very close to breaking my television.
September 17th, 2010 at 8:38 pm
It would be petty of me to point out that the three most powerful nazis were catholic, Hitler, Goring and Goebbals.
It would be petty to point out that the catholic church signed the concorde with Germany, effectively giving them free reign with the holocaust, which is STILL in existence.
However I’ll bow to his superior knowledge as I’m sure the little national socialist has first hand experience…………….
September 17th, 2010 at 8:47 pm
I just refuse to listen to or watch anything regarding the malicious old drag queen. I have never felt so much animosity towards anybody or anything as I do towards the ex nazi who embraces Holocaust deniers and his cult of repression and ignorance. Apologies for the rant people.
September 17th, 2010 at 9:02 pm
“Anne Widdecome was describing Ratz as having an “aura of holiness—
I honestly find her a difficult human being to look at, not in the aesthetic sense, but in that she is such a craven quisling that she even happily subscribes to the notion that her own genitals make her a disgustingly unclean person who should not be near an altar in a church, just so she can be in agreement with that church. It is horrible to see a person act like that – it flies in the face of human dignity.
To claim that this man, after all that he has done and all that his predecessors have done that he is unapologetic for, has an aura of holiness is such a slap in the face to every victim of him and his inaction that I have to wonder if she even has a conscience. They claim that atheists are the ones who have no morals, but they aren’t the ones who will argue black is white simply to be seen as being obedient to their idealogical master. Probably because atheists don’t have one.
September 17th, 2010 at 9:36 pm
Here is a link to PZ Myers and the list of religious quotes from Hitler as mentioned above by FedupwithR:
http://goo.gl/Yv1e
And here is a link to Hitler’s damning 1933 election poster:
http://goo.gl/TgZM
September 17th, 2010 at 10:14 pm
And the Queen just stood there and took it, just like the Westminster lot took it, right up the bum without as much as a grimace. Ratcatcher must be laughing his holy gonads off at this lot.
September 17th, 2010 at 10:20 pm
David McNerny, Ratty ran from his post on a anti aircraft gun emplacment, a coward in fear of his own life. Who is to say what he would have felt if he had been braver or if the fuckers had won. After all his father was a police officer during the Third Reich who must have sworn allegiance to the regime. As a “good” catholic he would also have had certain views on the jews. You know what they say about ” Give me a boy until the age of seven and I`ll give you the man. With regards to ratties age at the time many kids of his age and younger died in the defence of Russia.
September 17th, 2010 at 10:28 pm
“Gott mit uns” doesn’t sound very Atheist/Secular, so why did the Nazis put this slogan on their belt-buckles? Where those present while these lies were being presented by the man whose main-job used to be damage-controller in abuse-cases, as facts ignorant, indifferent or just polite? This organisation is beyond salvation and no one with a shred of decency and common sense should pay homage to it.
If were any good at ranting, this would be the time to do just that.
September 17th, 2010 at 10:41 pm
The kiddie-fiddler king is doing what religions have always done: trying to re-write history to fit their prejudices and further their perverted cause, this latest outburst is yet another example along the lines of if you repeat a big lie etc. I suppose we can take comfort in the fact that Ratsi and his mates are so terrified of secularism and egalitarianism that the last resort is the nazi smear.
Richard Dawkins is livid about benny’s smear – have a look at his site.
September 17th, 2010 at 10:56 pm
Devout Nazis were also devout Christians,nearly forty years ago I worked with former members of the Nazi war machine,they managed to reconcile Christianity with residual Nazism,quite easily.
The old charlatan seems to be becoming desperate,but given the average citizen’s ignorance of history,his lies will probably be accepted as the truth by many people.
Catholic-Nazi co-operation continued after WW2,when Catholic clergy helped suspected Nazi war criminals escape justice through the infamous ‘rat lines’.
September 17th, 2010 at 11:29 pm
“Anne Widdecome was describing Ratz as having an “aura of holinessâ€
That wasn’t an aura. That was a miasma.
mi·as·ma
1.
noxious exhalations from putrescent organic matter; poisonous effluvia or germs polluting the atmosphere.
2.
a dangerous, foreboding, or deathlike influence or atmosphere.
September 17th, 2010 at 11:46 pm
Bill Boswell,
The onus is on believers to prove the existence of a deity,not on atheists to disprove the hypothesis.
September 17th, 2010 at 11:47 pm
Bill: The onus is on the person alleging the existence of something to prove that it exists, not for others to prove it doesn’t.
Please see Russel’s Teapot.
September 17th, 2010 at 11:58 pm
BTW
” ‘And all those exclamation marks, you notice? Five? A sure sign of someone who wears his underpants on his head.’ ”
—Terry Pratchett
September 17th, 2010 at 11:59 pm
@Bill Boswell
Why don’t you start by giving some proof that you have the mental capacity to even understand a reasonable response.
In the absense of evidence why should one believe any proposition; including the proposition that you are capable of understanding logic?
September 18th, 2010 at 12:16 am
Boswell, you are an ignorant troll. You have been warned to stay away from this blog, but the message clearly hasn’t penetrated the cinder block you call a skull. What part of “fuck off” don’t you understand?”
September 18th, 2010 at 12:20 am
Isn’t a fact something based on scientific evidence? You tell us where your scientific evidence is. If the existence of god is a fact then you have the evidence and all we have is a belief. So show us the evidence. Simples
September 18th, 2010 at 12:22 am
Hello Bill
“How can the nazis be Christian when they murdered millions of Jews and Gypsys in concentration camps?”
It’s a terrible question to ponder, isn’t it.
“How can the catholics/pope/priests etc claim to be Godly when they have a history riddled with rape lies murder and cover ups?”
I don’t know, but they appear to be considered god’s representatives on earth.
As the others stated above, if you claim there is a god(s), the responsibility is upon you to provide the evidence.
September 18th, 2010 at 12:33 am
Regarding Ratzinger, I hope the nasty old cunt dies in a fire sometime soon. Apologies for the language but those are the only words I found to adequately express my feelings on this topic.
September 18th, 2010 at 12:38 am
Check out this link to a Nazi election poster that clearly demonstrates that the Nazis (that’s you, Ratty) and the catholic church (oh, that’s you again Ratty) were of one mind in the run up to Hitler’s seizing of power.
The poster is titled “Why is a Catholic obliged to vote for the parliamentary list of Adolf Hitler?†It answers this question by enumerating the benefits to the Church of the concordat negotiated by Pius XII, and signed just months before.
Pardon my French, but fuck you, your holiness.
http://www.secularism.org.uk/h.....s-the.html
September 18th, 2010 at 1:12 am
Bill
Ok here is the proof there is no god…oh and I use small case letters for your fantasy god because only proper names of real enities deserve capital letters….
Carefully read the following Bill
“To be certain that we have evidence of absence of mice in the attic, we need a confident method of detection to make certain there are no mice in the attic”
To be certain that there is no god …we need a method of detection to indicate that there is one…..
Simple …straight forward…no method of detection, because how do you detect a “thought” ? …no evidence of a god, cause he/she/it is just a thought, …hence no god.
You can stop holding your breath and turning blue now Bill…. go to the pub and tie one on… …no god will think ill of you for it …but your lady might…Cheers
September 18th, 2010 at 1:18 am
That poster is remarkable. It’s rather beyond a smoking gun in these proceedings. I have to wonder, though, what does number six mean? For some reason it seems rather… disturbing.
September 18th, 2010 at 1:38 am
If anyone is going to the protest tomorrow, I’ll be the really tall guy in the dark suit with the chubby redhead, old(er) lady and a chap who calls himself Jesus. I expect there will be drinks later with a few people from the http://secularcafe.org
If you are on your todd, come with us – join SC in the morning and PM me a number to text
either way….
Fuck the motherfucker, fuck the motherfucker
Fuck the motherfucker, he’s a fucking motherfucker
Fuck the motherfucker, fuck the fucking fucker
Fuck the motherfucker, he’s a total fucking fucker
Fuck the motherfucker, fuck the motherfucker
Fuck the motherfucker, fucking fuck the motherfucker
Fuck the motherfucker, fuck the motherfucking pope
Fuck the motherfucker, and fuck you motherfucker
If you think that motherfucker is sacred (fucking motherfucker)
If you cover for another motherfucker who’s a kiddie fucker
Fuck you you’re no better then the mother fucking rapist
And if you don’t like this swearing that this motherfucker forced from me
And reckon it’s shows moral or intellectual paucity
Then fuck you motherfucker, this is language one employs
When one is fucking cross about fuckers fucking boys
I don’t give a fuck if calling the pope a motherfucker
Means you unthinkingly brand me and unthinking apostate, and
This has naught to do with other fucking godly motherfuckers
I’m not interested right now in fucking scriptural debate
There are other fucking songs and there are other fucking ways
I’ll be a religious apologist on other fucking days
And the fact remains that if you protect a single kiddie fucker
Then pope or prince or plumber you’re a fucking motherfucker
You see I don’t give a fuck what any other motherfucker
Believes about Jesus and his motherfucking mother
I’ve no problem with the spiritual beliefs of all these fuckers
While those beliefs don’t impact on the happiness of others
But if you build your church on claims of fucking moral authority
And with threats of hell impose it on others in society
Then you, you motherfuckers, can expect some fucking wrath
When it turn out you’ve been fucking us in our motherfucking asses
So fuck the motherfucker and fuck you motherfucker
If you’re still a motherfucking papist (fucking motherfucker)
If you covered for a single motherfucker who’s a kiddie fucker,
Fuck the motherfucker he’s as evil as the rapist
And if you look into your motherfucking heart and tell me true
If this motherfucking stupid fucking song offended you
With it’s filthy fucking language and it’s fucking disrespect
If it made you feel angry go ahead and write a letter
But if you find me more offensive then the fucking possibility
The pope protected priests when they where getting fucking fiddly
Then listen to me motherfucker, this here is a fact
You are just as morally misguided as that motherfucking
Power hungry, self aggrandised bigot in the stupid fucking hat
Fuck the motherfucker, Fuck the motherfucker
Fuck the motherfucker, he’s a fucking motherfucker
Fuck the motherfucker, …
September 18th, 2010 at 2:53 am
Boswell,
I’ll put it simply so you can understand.
Once a year I go out (xmas) to buy presents for the loved ones. I see a chubby chap dressed in red and shouting ‘ho, ho, ho.’ Now, I have seen this man once or twice a year for the last 40yrs.
YOUR religion tells me that he does not exist, yet I can see, touch and hear him.
YOUR god I cannot see, touch or hear, and it does not appear at xmas, but according to your beliefs I have to accept that it exists?
Even with a brain contaminated by religion this does not add up. But don’t worry, any glaring holes in your
reality can be filled with the ultimate crap polyfiller – faith.
September 18th, 2010 at 3:31 am
At the risk of triggering the paranoia of my stalker, the following information needs to be drawn to the attention of persons who believe that the nonexistence of “God” cannot be proven, but who, unlke the Boswell troll, are not unteachable.
Anything that cannot exist (e.g., a number that is more than ten but less than nine) does not exist. Anyone who disputes that self-evident reality is unteachable, and need read no further.
The nonexistence of lifeforms we might classify as gods somewhere in the universe indeed cannot be proven. The nonexistence of “God”, defined as a god with the mutually-exclusive properties attributed to the god of every one-paramount-god religion, has been definitively proven. The book that establishes that beyond sane dispute is Victor Stenger’s God: The Failed Hypothesis. His argument is that, in a world permeated with evil, a god that has the omnipotence to exterminate evil, and the benevolence to want to exterminate evil, but has not done so, is as oxymoronic as a triangle with four sides. Such a “God” cannot exist and therefore does not exist.
September 18th, 2010 at 4:00 am
Terry Pratchet,one of the great philosophers of the modern age.
September 18th, 2010 at 5:55 am
Those who protest the Pope’s visit should heed Paula Kirby’s plea to not be distracted by these silly lies.
Please, don’t give an ounce of attention to these ridiculous statements he’s made; they are easily rebutted at length later. Giving precious seconds to them during the Pope’s visit will do the Vatican an enormous favour.
Don’t make the mistake of letting observers think that “atheist Nazis†is the big issue with the Pope’s visit; we have more important grievances with his visit that need persistence and attention.
Instead, spend wisely the limited attention the media will give to the protests, by continuing to press the issues of Vatican policies: protecting child rapists, obstructing condom use and abortion, gobbling public taxes in democratic countries, persecution of homosexuals, and so on.
September 18th, 2010 at 6:26 am
Mr. Ratzinger,
first of all, let me tell you that I am very pleased to see that you have finally reached the stage of accusing your opponents of thought of being linked to Hitler, a measure usually suggesting that the accusing party has run out of arguments and valid points, if such ever existed. Your ad hominem has been duly noticed and, I am certain, will help widening the gap between atheists and Christians – something you otherwise tend to so generously state you’d desire being closed. It seems the Christian church has finally reached phase three of one of Mahatma Gandhi’s most famous quotes regarding atheists. I look forward to see the situation reach phase four.
Second, you seem to be in the need of a bit of education on the topic you picked – quite shocking, given that you yourself have spent time in Hitler Youth and WWII. I do not see a reason to further add anything to the line of proof crushingly contradicting your statements on this very website, but there is something I want you to keep in mind:
Atheism is the simple statement that no gods exist. Atheism values scientific methods, rational, free thought and fact-based, peer-reviewed lines of proof.
The reason why various dictatorships eradicated any belief systems within the nations they controlled – while others did not – is quite simple: A fascist dictatorship only has room for *one single* totalitarian lead figure and value system, and the dogma it stands for. As such, religions distract the people of a nation under dictatorship ruling from focusing on one single entity due to leaving said people with both a political and religious lead figure. There are only two possible consequences: First, the political lead figure abolishes religion altogether, or, second, the political lead figure convinces his nation of siding, of speaking for its religion, thus merging the political and religious lead into one single entity – himself. Stalin and Mao picked option 1. Hitler, as you can read here, picked option 2. The results were the same.
To state that politically enforced belief/disbelief has anything to do with faith/atheism is ridiculous and shows a lack of understanding in the matter. True atheism is reached and held from personal thought process, analyzing all facts at hand and coming to the conclusion that gods do not exist – a result reached and kept purely from a personal, free-minded and optional decision. Enforced disbelief issued by a state to its people by force of law and threat of violence has nothing to do with a free-thinking, personal conclusion. Enforced disbelief is *not* atheism.
Best regards,
Me
September 18th, 2010 at 6:41 am
The Nazis may have been atheists but like most sensible leaders saw religion as a means of control. This is well explained in Michael Burleigh’s book The Third Reich, a New History. It has a separate chapter entitled Faith, Hope and a Little Charity Too. Sound familiar?
Ratty is a liar.
These from LolGod:
http://lolgod.blogspot.com/201.....heism.html
http://lolgod.blogspot.com/201.....eists.html
Funny seeing Benedict and Rowan Williams side-by-side. Real Pope alongside Tesco Value Pope.
September 18th, 2010 at 8:02 am
Please don’t feed the trolls, as it only encourages them, and when their comments are deleted the site is a mess! Also, it only distracts from the subject in hand. (I was tempted to add five exclamation marks to that statement!)
Il Duce is now trying to “save Christmas”, according to that Nazi-supporting newspaper, The Daily Mail:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new.....peech.html
What a load of tripe, and why are our leading politicians wasting their valuable time on this ridiculous pantomime?
September 18th, 2010 at 8:17 am
My comment has disappeared, so I hope it will be shown later, as I have had a lot of problems with this site recently, for some reason. I am greatly amused by those photos of His Pofacedness and Dumbledore embracing so enthusiastically, and I am just waiting for the old fraud to respond to the warm gestures by putting the boot in – perhaps when he gets back to Rome rather than on this visit!
September 18th, 2010 at 9:15 am
@barriejohn,
I actually enjoy the rants of the occassional trolls we get on this site. Over the years many members have challenged them simply to ‘prove it.’
They always resort to type and start quoting scripture or fail to even debate, which always makes me feel that they themselves realise the stupidity of their beliefs.
September 18th, 2010 at 9:37 am
One think that I have noticed when chatting to colleagues at work is that all of them are barely aware that any of this is going on. They see on the news that there is a state visit by the Pope and they know that he is the head of the RCC and as such lots of Catholics will turn out to see him. They know there are some protesters involved who are hot under the collar about the child abuse scandal. Other that that, all the fine details just sail over their heads, so the Nazi slur is really only known to the faithful and the active atheist camp, no-one else gives a shit.
On the one hand I feel that this, almost universal, apathy gratifying. On the other hand this same apathy is the one thing that prevents us from freeing ouselves from the last vestiges of religious influence and finally becoming free.
September 18th, 2010 at 9:49 am
Broadsword: very funny! For once in my life I actually felt sorry for Rowan Williams, as he wandered alone, several paces behind the REAL Pope, with a look on his face that said “Please don’t forget ME – I’m a very important person too, you know”!
September 18th, 2010 at 9:54 am
I wanted Barry to blog THIS story, but I think we’re out of luck!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sci.....stars.html
September 18th, 2010 at 10:43 am
@barriejohn
I couldn’t ignore Rowan. As with all good chiefs, he had the tallest, most impressive headdress. No feathers though.
September 18th, 2010 at 11:31 am
Billy boy, your comments get deleted because you are off topic and you have nothing useful to say and certainly nothing that we have not heard a million times before.
September 18th, 2010 at 11:40 am
http://www.randi.org/site/inde.....lenge.html
September 18th, 2010 at 11:40 am
Wasn’t Billy Boswell a character out of the 80′s sitcom “Bread”?
http://sharetv.org/shows/bread.....ly_boswell
September 18th, 2010 at 11:44 am
Billy…
“Please prove me wrong please provide the SCIENTIFIC proof that will prove me wrong”
They already have, but you are obviously too thick to understand ‘scientific proof’ when you see it. Also you cannot provide any scientific proof that your god does exist, so you can’t really debate on a scientific level anyway can you?
Now please stop being a fuckwit and try and learn what the words you are using actually mean, or else just go and sit in a corner with the pointy hat on. You’re a fucking embarassment to the human race seriously…
September 18th, 2010 at 12:24 pm
@ Billy just a hint for you m’okay, the bible isn’t a scientific text book, the bible is a big book o fictional stories that may or may not be based around some historical events.
If you were not too thick to read and comprehend this very thread, (you know it’s not too far to fucking look, do I actually have to link this thread here for you?)you would see that evidence has already been presented, as I already said, but you again prove to be too much of a moronic fuckwit to comprehend.
So as I already mentioned, if you are too fucking stupid to see the answers to your questions when they are right in front of your slack jawed monobrowed face, then you sir are most likely the ‘missing link’ of which you speak and not I!
As for the Jesus lives comment, you left a bit off the full version is ‘Jesus lives in Tijuana’…
September 18th, 2010 at 12:32 pm
Billy boy,
Without resorting to scripture, please provide proof your god exists.
I’m not a believer so there is no pressure on me, nor am I a scientist, but I’ll have a brief shot, using your bible.
If you take the bible as the absolute word of god then lets have a bit of fun. The bible states that the world is flat, and this was destroyed by the development of latitude and longitude. Genesis states that the earth is about 4000yrs old and this argument was kicked into place by simple carbon dating which, I believe, is good for about 60,000yrs. Which again makes a mockery of Genesis. The bible and the RC church made it heresy to believe that the earth revolved around the sun, thanks to Galileo and others, this was confirmed by mathematics.
So if the bible is fact, and, even at my basic level of scientific knowledge, I can prove most of it to be wrong, surely then a god who makes such mistakes cannot be omnipotent? And if a god is not omnipotent, surely that leads to the fact she/he cannot exist?
Just to finish off, the religious muppets used to say, ‘god is in the heavens,’ when we got flight that was quickly ammended to ‘god is within us.’ Now, at present the human genome is being mapped at a tremendous rate, and so far, your wee god is being a bit elusive.
So the onus is on you to PROVE that she/he exists.
September 18th, 2010 at 12:36 pm
For the record challenging someone to a ‘scientific’ debate and then arguing your side with theology, is like taking a snooker cue to a ping pong tournament, just saying…
September 18th, 2010 at 1:13 pm
Russell W: “Terry Pratchet,one of the great philosophers of the modern age.”
And sadly still overshadowed by Douglas Adams.
Billy-Bob: Could I invite you to take your argument to Pharyngula? They eat furry little creatures like you for breakfast over there. Tell us when you’re going to post though please. I want to watch.
September 18th, 2010 at 1:14 pm
Bill Boswell,
If we use Stenger’s argument against the omniscient,ominipotent,benevolent God( as represented by William Harwood) then,given the state of human existence, if any god exists,he, she or it, must be an evil bastard,or too weak to bother brown-nosing.
September 18th, 2010 at 1:15 pm
Nazis – ah yes! Takes one to know one I’d say.
September 18th, 2010 at 1:18 pm
“Also the Bible teaches that the earth is 7000 max yrs old i will post a link that explains in great detail also regarding cabon dating”
As zen master Raven asks, “Where do you find this in scripture”?
September 18th, 2010 at 1:29 pm
Yep so you ARE bringing a snooker cue to a ping pong match then Billy? By your logic then there is a place called toytown where a charming little chap called Noddy lives along with his friend Big ears. I can prove this because look see it’s written in a book! http://www.enidblytonsociety.co.uk/noddy.php
You sir truly are a fucking moron of the highest order, and I laugh in your general direction. As for proof, I will explain this slowly and carefully and try not to use big words, the ‘proof’ that your god does not exist is the fact that no evidence can be presented that he does! And that my friend is a scientific argument, if you are too dullwitted to tell the difference between theology and science then there’s really no hope for you ever understanding why I think you’re a dullard and a fuckwitted moron.
I am quite capable of owning your sorry ass every hour of every day for a month of sundays. Just because you are yet again too fucking stupid to see when you have been owned does not lessen the victory of logic and reason. I have had a huge laugh at your expense today, thanks it’s cheered me up no end!
Have a lovely day!
September 18th, 2010 at 1:43 pm
Oh dear, Billy is back spouting boswellox. No matter how much evidence you feed these trolls they are either too dim to understand it or just ignore it because it doesn’t agree with their bible. We scientists have overwhelming evidence for evolution and for dating the age of the earth, but that isn’t enough for the religious. No matter how many times we ask a religious person for evidence to back up their preposterous claims – they can’t, because there is none. No doubt Mr Boswell will come back crowing with some nonsense about the reliability of Carbon 14 dating whilst ignoring other isotopes used for dating; and he’ll ignore geology and the fossil record and the distance to stars and the velocity of light….
September 18th, 2010 at 2:47 pm
Good grief.
How does somebody that dumb actually manage to use a computer?
September 18th, 2010 at 2:55 pm
All the evidence that’s needed is right here in this thread Billybob, as has been said many times now. But if you really need some conclusive proof try this link. http://img34.imageshack.us/img.....texist.jpg
As for your lololol comment, as I suspected you sir are a ‘chucklehead’.
September 18th, 2010 at 3:13 pm
I didn’t want to feed the troll but in the interest of the advancement and sharing of knowledge I can’t help but at least offer to answer the question:
Peanut butter jars are nothing like the environment of early earth which was conducive to abiogenesis, and even if it were, it may have required trillions upon trillions of instances over the course of billions of years in order for life to actually begin – statistically still far, far beyond the relatively few ‘experiments’ conducted over the course of the history of sealed peanut butter jars.
Not to mention there is no way of knowing if life ever did start in any of these jars, because it would have been too small to observe by the naked eye and the evidence would have been eaten anyway. It’s not as if people check their peanut butter under a microscope before they make each sandwich. Oh, and “matter + heat/energy = life” is not anywhere near the whole story of how life begins. It’s a bit like saying putting your foot on the gas makes cars go.
Although, as an aside, I would like to ask our guest what it is that DOES make cars go (in terms of fuel) and where this fuel came from and where it got its tremendous energy content? Any ideas?
September 18th, 2010 at 3:48 pm
Please post the link. And yes, I can understand a question and give an answer. Your question was why peanut butter doesn’t produce new life given so many jars exposed to energy and opened so many times. I told you a) why and b) that it is not actually necessarily the case that it does not produce life, but no one has observed it because no one looks at their peanut butter under a microscope. The fact is it is you who apparently cannot understand your own question. Mentioning early earth is not skipping ahead, it is explaining why peanut butter is not the same as the environment depicted in the evolutionary model. Whether you believe in that model is irrelevant – it is a false comparison to equate a jar of peanut butter with the environment that is said to have engendered the start of life. That would be like me telling you the bible is wrong because lightsabers cannot be built. I honestly wonder if you even read what I said or just found that phrase and dismissed everything around it.
As for matter, that is largely irrelevant to abiogenesis and the origin of matter is totally different from the origin of life. Still, where did god come from if god created matter? If nothing can come from nothing (something that physics is making progress on dismantling) then god has to have come from somewhere… and that came from somewhere, and so on.
September 18th, 2010 at 4:27 pm
Matter is matter and has no beginning or end. Like energy, matter cannot be created or destroyed, only transformed. Unlike god, both can be observed and verified to exist.
Also, you just ignored everything I said about the peanut butter argument. Can you accept at least that it is not a good comparison to the beginnings of life on earth?
September 18th, 2010 at 4:32 pm
At Josef’s age, your memory may not be what it used to be.
Hitler Jugend oath: “In the presence of this blood banner, wich represents our Fürher, I swear to devote all my energies and my strenght to the savior of our country, Adolf Hitler, I am willing and ready to give up my life for him, so help me God.”
September 18th, 2010 at 5:14 pm
“barrie duke is a mug and a coward i have answered youjr questions in a post that has been deleted suprise suprise.”
“As for serai you are just an idiot who is uncapable of having a civil conversation so do your self a favour and go back to bed”
“God bless”
Bill Boswell has now demonstrated why his posts don’t deserve to be taken seriously.
September 18th, 2010 at 5:50 pm
Har
A previous poster stated that Ratty deserted his post from an ack-ack gun as a fourteen-year-old boy in 1945. I’d never expect a boy to front up and do a man’s job so for this, I cannot accuse him of physical cowardice. He lacks moral cowardice however with his complicity in the cover-ups of the RCC abuse scandals. He will have known the abused children were the victims of criminal offences yet chose to preserve the reputation of his church rather than deliver the perverts to the authorities. This is unforgivable yet this man is here now, in the UK, criticising our lifestyles as our leaders fawn over him. From Mrs Thatcher to our present leaders, why were they all there while he talked bollock* at them. I would have thought more of Gordon Brown if he’d picked his nose and fallen asleep during Ratty’s monologue.
*Apparently Hitler only had one!
September 18th, 2010 at 5:54 pm
Billy Boy,
Despite me tearing apart your genesis, you had to resort to type and use scripture to back up your worthless beliefs.
As I asked where is your proof? And, please, just for a change, unlike the other trolls who have come here, actually answer the question, no scripture just proof. Saying that god exists is not scientific proof. Answer the fucking question.
September 18th, 2010 at 5:59 pm
Tony: Methinks, Sir, thou doth urinate windwardly.
September 18th, 2010 at 8:00 pm
Second attempt: I’ve just come home and opened the site, and I despair at what I am reading! Most of you have conspired to allow “Billy Boswell” to ruin this thread. His comments have been deleted, so the replies make no sense now, and I really can’t be arsed to read through them all. The man is obviously a moron as well as a religious maniac, so what is the point of trying to engage with him intellectually? And what sort of a debate are you expecting with someone whose argument begins: “The Bible says…”? As Daz says – you are pissing in the wind!
September 18th, 2010 at 8:08 pm
I think it would be dishonest of us to claim to be all in favour of scientific enquiry and then refuse to answer questions and put up a wall against someone just because they look very much like an idiot. It’s your place to run, but the only reason the comments make no sense now is because you chose to censor the guy and give him more ammunition instead of just letting him fail on his own merits. Now he’ll run back to whatever hole he came from insisting that the big bad atheists are afraid to engage him.
Things didn’t get out of hand, and we’re still aware of the topic. The thread was not ruined until somebody decided to hack it to pieces unnecessarily. The update posted is a pretty good quote, and the idea that the church might want to try listening rather than lecturing is a very good one. I’m not sure how many times it needs to be put to them and in how many ways that the everyone is waiting for the pope to actually acknowledge that the church did something wrong, criminally wrong, and he himself had a hand in it. All this talk of feeling sorrow doesn’t really help, nor does riling everybody up with complete nonsense about Nazis and atheists. I think it really shows that the church has little of substance to say now – all we’re really getting is “don’t give up on us”.
September 18th, 2010 at 8:42 pm
This is a disgrace.
Billy Bollox has to be the most successful troll to date. I, to my shame, have probably fed it but it really ought to end now. We’re sniping at one another and turning in on ourselves. LoLoLolololol.
Please, do not respond to William Testicles.
September 18th, 2010 at 9:19 pm
Does this site not have a spam filter into which the email address of a troll so stupid that he probably has to wear a triple-strength diaper 24/7 (as Ratzinazi’s Down syndrome predecessor did) can be fed, so that his verbal diarrhea does not get posted in the first place?
September 18th, 2010 at 9:31 pm
For those who believe that there is God, no explanation is necessary. But for those who do not have such belief, no explanation is possible. I know, the dark ages of the Catholic church can be traced in history but there is no way for anyone to remain stagnant with such historical facts. The church as the people of God should renew, grow and check herself along the course of time… Atheism is, by principle a contradiction in itself.
September 18th, 2010 at 11:11 pm
In Richard Dawkins’ book, The Greatest Show on Earth, he includes (pp. 198-202) a transcript of a TV dialogue on the subject of pretended gaps in the fossil record with a woman who kept parroting, “Show me the fossils,” even after he had several times named the museums where she could see them. Clearly, a person who would keep repeating, “Show me…” after she had been answered over and over gives other trolls a bad name. A reviewer commented, “I found myself wondering why she was not immediately taken into custody and marched off to the nearest funny farm.”
September 19th, 2010 at 5:23 am
For someone who knows that a god–or for that matter a shrdlu–with mutually-exclusive qualities cannot and therefore does not exist, no additional falsifying evidence is necessary. For someone who needs an afterlife belief to overcome his terror of death and get him through the day without having to be institutionalized and diapered, no amount of falsifying evidence is possible.
September 19th, 2010 at 1:44 pm
I think this is the stupid woman to whom Greatest Show On Earth refers. What an imbecile!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFjoEgYOgRo
September 19th, 2010 at 3:44 pm
I think the point that a lot of people miss is this: Ratzo is a Nazi shitbag, not because of his Hitler Youth past, but because of the Nazi policies that he advocates now, at this very moment, in his role as Pope.
September 30th, 2010 at 10:08 am
““Gott mit uns†doesn’t sound very Atheist/Secular, so why did the Nazis put this slogan on their belt-buckles?”
Well, they didn’t “put it there”; it dates back to long before the Nazis, to the old German army; it was an old German army slogan that the Nazis inherited when they took power (German soldiers in WWI for instance wore the same slogan on their belt-buckels).
“I think the point that a lot of people miss is this: Ratzo is a Nazi shitbag, not because of his Hitler Youth past, but because of the Nazi policies that he advocates now, at this very moment, in his role as Pope.”
Let’s not abuse the word “nazi”: the National Socialist German Workers Party under Hitler had a definite ideology and polices, which is different from that of the current Pope and Catholic Church. The policies the Pope advocates today is not National Socialism, and it is an abuse of history and language to assert otherwise. There can be more than one type of “shitbag”, after all.