WHY would any self-respecting gay person want to get married in a church?
That was the question posed at the weekend by George Broadhead, secretary of the gay humanist charity the Pink Triangle Trust.
Rowan Williams: Gay weddings? Not in my Churches!
Broadhead was reacting to a statement by Rowan (“Dumbledore”) Williams, the Archbishop of Canterbury, who said that he will not countenance Church of England buildings being used to conduct gay civil partnership ceremonies and is not prepared to let the Government tell the Church how to behave.
Broadhead said:
This is not at all surprising. When Williams was first appointed in 2003, he was warmly welcomed by gay Christians as a liberal, but it has become obvious in recent years that he has thrown in his lot with the Church’s evangelicals who take a hard line on gay sexual relationships and gay rights.
He has been unwilling to distance himself, let alone condemn, the worst of these like the Anglicans in Uganda. Although he publicly condemned the murder of the Ugandan gay activist David Kato, he declined to recognise the part played in stoking up anti-gay hatred by the Anglican Church in that country.
He added:
Humanists campaign for a society in which everyone is free to practise their faith, change it, or not have one at all, but many wonder why any self-respecting gay person would want a ceremony in a building which belongs to an institution which oppresses them. After all there are now plenty of plush alternatives to the often gloomy registry offices.
Hat tip: BarrieJohn (for the Williams’ link)
The Freethinker was founded in 1881 by GW Foote, an outspoken critic of religion. After the publication of 
February 28th, 2011 at 11:43 am
If a building’s not fit for public purpose it ain’t fit for public subsidy either.
Not that I know anyone with poor enough taste to be married in a faith barn, but wouldn’t one obvious suggestion be that churches who refuse to conduct civil partnerships also forgo their right to heritage grants and all the other public subsidies the Anglicans have quite a massive department devoted to helping churches claim?
That makes it a matter of conscience – which the deluded herd are forever bleating about. And there is a precedent – the Sally Army don’t believe in gambling, so they don’t accept Lottery money.
February 28th, 2011 at 12:09 pm
Rowan Williams is desperately trying to hold his ramshackle church together by walking in the middle of the road. The result is he keeps being hit by trucks. I don’t know why anyone, gay or not, other than those with a need to strut up the aisle on their special day, would want to get married in a church. The words of the service, for a start, are repellent and many of them meaningless.
I have a twinge of the old schadenfreuds when I think that we were married in a Registry Office over 40 years ago. We are still together and happy to be that. Many of those, including relatives, who then and since opted for the church ceremony are now divorced or wish they were divorced. And that includes one couple who were scathing about us not making our vows before god on the grounds that they must lack meaning.
February 28th, 2011 at 12:14 pm
It’s not up to Williams to decide anyway. Who does he think he is, the fucking Pope?
February 28th, 2011 at 12:38 pm
Who’d have though Henry VIII’s insatiable appetite for totty and complete lack of any firm religious beliefs (other than ‘God made me the f***ing king!’) would have got us into this right old mess?
It is always funny to see a church created as a political maneouvre act as if it were all about deep spiritual convictions. Just remember these are men in dresses who can’t even make up interesting fantasies of their own, so they have to cling to the shop-soiled delusions of earlier epochs. Sad, silly little men.
February 28th, 2011 at 1:35 pm
@valdemar
could not have said it better myself…in other words, what he said ^
February 28th, 2011 at 1:47 pm
@barriejohn: Quite right, bj, quite right. Sometimes when these C.of E. types become uppity and attempt to make these difficult decisons they need reminding of who really calls the shots. And that is Pappa Ratzi himself, the ex cathedra man with the built in infallibility.
As for Henry V111, an disgusting example of a grotesquely obese glutton, lusting after ever nubile wench regardless of their attitude or anyone elses, desperate for a son, and ready to kill anyone who got in his way. This murderous villain, despite being wrapped in his fantasy of his divine right, is still a murderous criminal. And the creator of the C. of E.
February 28th, 2011 at 2:28 pm
Broga: That’s not quite what I meant. The CofE doesn’t work in the same way as the Catholic Church, so who’s he kidding when he sounds off like this? Can anyone tell us who would ultimately be responsible: the synod, bishops, the PCCs, or local vicars? Henry certainly made damned sure that no archbishop would have powers antything like Il Papa’s!
February 28th, 2011 at 2:52 pm
PS Am I the only one who can’t edit now?
February 28th, 2011 at 3:00 pm
Bloody hell Barriejohn. You could have warned me that frightening picture was coming up.
February 28th, 2011 at 3:05 pm
No. I can’t either.
February 28th, 2011 at 3:14 pm
Rowan Williams need never fear that he will one day be out of a job and on welfare because with those eyebrows he could easily get the part of a villain in any sequel to Lord of the Rings or Harry Potter. And yes, please warn us like Dave Gilbert said because I almost spilt my tea all over my keyboard!
February 28th, 2011 at 3:28 pm
I think that isn’t really Rowan Williams. It is Father Jack, the mad, lascivious, drunken priest in Father Ted.
February 28th, 2011 at 4:29 pm
Rev John Curtis Marchwood at every Wedding would always say to the bride and groom, without alteration or addition “If you love Jesus as much as he loves you, you will have a wonderful time together! Looks the spitting image of Rowan Williams
February 28th, 2011 at 4:45 pm
Personally, I would prefer the church stick with their anti-gay tactics. Perhaps it will turn more people away from their terrible religion. I completely agree with the author’s sentiments, wondering why any self-respecting gay person would want to be married by their oppressors. It makes no sense. Furthermore, why would any self-respecting gay person be a Christian of any kind? If having a religion is that important, there are several that don’t command you being stoned to death for your expressions of love. Seriously, just get a friend to become a minister through the universal life church and perform the ceremony, it’s stupid easy to do.
February 28th, 2011 at 5:11 pm
The photo was supplied by Barry Duke: I would never knowingly cause mental suffering to anyone. Williams was, in fact, playing the part of “Long-Johns Thirty-Pieces-of-Silver” in the St Cuthbert’s and The Fallen Angels’ GLBT/Crossdressers Winter Solstice Festival Pantomime at the time. “Aaargh, Jim me lad!”
February 28th, 2011 at 5:25 pm
Are Rowan and Andrea Williams CLC related? Since the latest “reversal in the concept of the public good and the traditional definition of sexual morality” AMW (See todays Daily Mail) ref: Christian Adoption ie., christian discrimination, must be sending them both loopy. I blame the lesbians.
February 28th, 2011 at 5:30 pm
http://www.sadireland.com/images/My_Arse.jpg
February 28th, 2011 at 6:17 pm
@barriejohn: Thanks bj. I loved that Father Jack photo. I think the Father Ted programmes really riled the RCs. They didn’t like factual presentations of their church. I always look out for repeats.
February 28th, 2011 at 7:51 pm
It’s tragic when gay people feel the need to belong to a church. Even in a church that claims to accept them the opposite will be true. I for one am grateful to have escaped.
February 28th, 2011 at 8:36 pm
The bigots keep whining about their precious churches being tainted by gay marriages. What self-respecting gay couple would want their special day ruined by one of those cesspools of hatred?
February 28th, 2011 at 8:40 pm
I’m not gay and therefore I appreciate I am hardly qualified to comment on the issue. But I have to say, it does baffle me why gay people would want anything whatsoever to do with the christian church – in any of its many manifestations. Let alone ask for its blessing of their relationship!
If you want a rather extreme analogy, it seems to me a bit like Jewish people wanting to join the Nazi party. Why wish to be a member of, and in particular seek the approval of, an organisation that harbours and preaches an irrational hatred of you and yours?
February 28th, 2011 at 9:01 pm
@Marcus: I don’t understand this. Why force yourself into an outfit that regards you as a repugnant and an offense in the view of god. Where does that leave gay clergy? Can’t quite see the male partner being welcomed at church fetes, teaching in Sunday School and being a foremost member of the Mother’s Union. Your analogy with Jews and the Nazis is a good one.
March 1st, 2011 at 12:49 am
@ Broga,
I’m a member of the Registry Office crew too, but more recent (almost 5 years). I think my mother-in-law always assumed her daughter would get married in a church, as she and my father-in-law are American and churchgoers (not fundies, evangelicals or annoying about it, by the way). She was a bit surprised to hear that we were doing a non-religious service, but was very pleased with the ceremony we had at the local registry office. A very well-worded ceremony that said all the right things, and a great time was had by all. The woman that married us was a Tottenham supporter too, which was a bonus.
I’m sure as the article says, a lot of Registry Offices are gloomy, but ours is rather nice, so our wedding actually looked a lot more expensive than it was!
http://www.havering.gov.uk/med.....cmyk_2.jpg
March 1st, 2011 at 1:08 am
Nathaniel said:
“If having a religion is that important, there are several that don’t command you being stoned to death for your expressions of love. Seriously, just get a friend to become a minister through the universal life church and perform the ceremony, it’s stupid easy to do.”
I agree, and I have said before that someone who wants to be accepted as a gay christian has made an oxymoron of their life. It’s not likely to turn out well. It’s like being a black member of the KKK. Just my opinion.
Actually, I really don’t understand why anyone wants to be “married”. In most western nations, a “power of attorney” and a “living will” will provide all the benefits without the sewer of divorce. Or you can go placing expectations all over each other and strive daily to be civil, after reality sets in. Too much work for a hole to put my dick in. My hand never gets a headache.
NeoWolfe
March 1st, 2011 at 1:25 am
Here in Australia, hotels and resorts in attractive areas have been setting up marriage chapels to cater to the local and Japanese wedding market. They sort of look a wee bit like a church, without any of the amusing religious stuff. No dead blokes on sticks stuck to the wall, no fluffy old men in dresses wandering around trying to look significant and the best bit, dollars to the resort and not the church.
March 1st, 2011 at 2:49 am
This seems similar to women who complain about not being permitted to be RCC priests? Why the hell would you want to? If one really feels the religion need there are a number of women friendly and gay friendly organizations
March 1st, 2011 at 7:05 am
You certainly wouldn’t want this bloke conducting your wedding. Not to mention a Christening…
http://www.nola.com/crime/inde.....ing_a.html
March 1st, 2011 at 8:32 am
Here’s a good place to get spliced:-
http://brightonbits.blogspot.c.....yorks.html
March 1st, 2011 at 11:37 am
@valdemar: Grant Storms – you couldn’t make this up. What a low life: on the one hand raging against whatever suits his demented imagination and on the other masturbating while watching children.
March 1st, 2011 at 1:59 pm
I was under the impression that Registry Offices were a secular branch of government where one registered marriage and other things. Are they in fact owned and operated by the C of E?