NEXT month – on September 17 – a large-scale protest by secular groups against the Vatican’s persistent interference in politics is due to take place in London.
Gregor Gysi
But bizarrely, a left-wing German politician appears to be calling for MORE papal involvement in the way in which countries run their affairs.
Ahead of Pope Ratzinger’s visit to Germany next month, Gregor Gysi, 63, parliamentary leader for a small party in the German Bundestag called The Left, yesterday thanked the Pope for consistently preaching that a modern society must have moral norms in order to function properly.
Writing in the weekly Christ und Welt, Gysi said society:
Won’t work without the concept of the good, but modern science can’t tell us what is good. Its concepts focus on empirical experience. Ideas such as morality play no role there.
Despite Ratzinger’s reputation as a staunch conservative, Gysi wrote, he turns out to be a modern theologian who says societies need both religious traditions and rational arguments to forge the moral consensus they need to operate.
Gysi noted with approval that Benedict has said religions without reason can lead to fanaticism, while rational thinking without faith can lead to excessive pride and intolerance.
Meanwhile, Marco Tranchino, who is organising the Secular Europe Campaign, said:
Wherever the Pope goes now he will be sure to face criticism and protest. We want to keep the impetus going that started last year at the Protest the Pope event, and encourage all people who believe in separation of religion from the state to join us.
Tranchino points out that the Vatican had far too much influence on the institutions of the European Union and it was time for that to be challenged.
We have the support of feminist, gay and secular groups from all around Europe and large numbers of individuals who are following us on social network sites. We hope that this will send a message to the governments of Europe and Great Britain that alarm is growing at the undue influence of religion on political decision-making. We want a secular Europe where there is room for everyone, whether they have a religious belief or not, where policy is directed only by elected politicians, not by priests who are answerable to no-one.
The campaign has launched a series of videos on its Youtube channel from prominent supporters including Philip Pullman, Richard Dawkins, Father Bernard Lynch, comedian Robin Ince and many others.
Tranchino emphasised:
This is not an anti-religious campaign, it is a campaign that should be shared by all people who believe in democratic decision-making and the separation of religion and politics.
The Freethinker was founded in 1881 by GW Foote, an outspoken critic of religion. After the publication of 
August 26th, 2011 at 9:48 am
“… a modern society must have moral norms in order to function properly.”
Fair enough. But would you really look to his Hollowness, the Paedophile-Protector-In-Chief, for guidance on morals?
August 26th, 2011 at 10:53 am
“while rational thinking without faith can lead to excessive pride and intolerance”
Made my day!
August 26th, 2011 at 12:12 pm
How about this, alb?
Benedict has said religions without reason can lead to fanaticism
“Religions without reason” – YOU COULDN’T MAKE IT UP!
August 26th, 2011 at 12:40 pm
Obviously Mr Gysi – in common with all religiots – has ignored all the nasty stuff done in the name of religion; bet he is a member of Opus Dei!
I hope our German friends do us proud and show their respect for Ratty
August 26th, 2011 at 12:43 pm
This demo is to be applauded for protesting against religious privelage in politics, however, should’nt it be against ALL religious privelage such as the failure to enforce laws against female genital mutilation and that new blasphemy law the “Incitement to Religious Hatred Act” etc ?
August 26th, 2011 at 1:28 pm
Does an action promote happiness or health? Then it’s good.
Does an action cause unnecessary pain or suffering? Then it’s bad.
It ain’t bloody rocket surgery!
August 26th, 2011 at 2:39 pm
Ratzinger and the Vatican can not preach morals to anyone having abused people like myself for decades and still protect their paedophiles within the Catholic Church to this day
August 26th, 2011 at 3:06 pm
The protest looks fun. I might just pop along and give them some immoral support.
August 26th, 2011 at 3:11 pm
Only the religious can act morally, and the evidence of that is all around us!
August 26th, 2011 at 3:27 pm
..hmm..so easy to go out and protest the Catholic Church. It is deservedly weak and crumbling. However Islam is gaining hold within our societies..Halal, Sharia courts, religious banking. This is were the real threat is. Unless we shout loud now at every opportunity it will become stronger. This is simple to see as Muslim families grow and therefore will ofcourse democratically elect their own.
August 26th, 2011 at 4:52 pm
Dess:
So you’re saying that because Islam exists, we shouldn’t oppose various brands of Christianity. Would you say that because influenza exists, we shouldn’t try to find a cure for the common cold?
Maybe you should read a few more Christian blogs and sites. They’re just as whacked out as the Islamists; it’s just that they don’t seem it, as they’re part of the culture we grew up with — we’re kind of immunised against the craziness.
August 26th, 2011 at 5:29 pm
What needs to be ended is the diplomatic immunity, granted by the fascist Mussolini to Ratzinger’s Nazi loving, Jew hating predecessor, and which allows Ratzinger to inflict himself on countries while remaining safe from arrest.
August 26th, 2011 at 6:38 pm
“Gysi noted with approval that Benedict has said religions without reason can lead to fanaticism, while rational thinking without faith can lead to excessive pride and intolerance.”
Intolerance of what, exactly? The only thing I can think rational thinking without faith leads to an intolerance of is bigotry, cruelty and intolerance. Not to say all rational, non-faithy types are incapable of being bigots or cruel, but at least they don’t have any immutable scripture to hang their racist, misogynistic, homophobic hat on and find it pretty hard to maintain that sort of thinking.
August 26th, 2011 at 7:13 pm
@JohnMWhite:
Even if non-faithy types are bigoted, cruel, intolerant, they can at least be persuaded to change their minds, true religiots can’t (which I think is what you said anyway -lol-).
August 26th, 2011 at 7:36 pm
Atheists are generally speaking the most tolerant. When it comes to such issues as race, sex, sexual orientation, various special needs, all kinds of diversity and human eccentricities, even religion, atheists, generally are the ones who speak out for a level playing field for everyone. We are the ones who most consistantly press for there to be no priviledge or penalties attached to such human differences, as far as practically possible.
The Catholic Church, on the other hand, Is the most intolerant institution in human history. Ratty misrepresents our criticism of the RCC’s villainy as intolerance and witless fools like Gysi believe him. As for the claim that we need the likes of the RCC for moral guidance, surely you would have to be from another effing planet to believe that.
August 26th, 2011 at 8:15 pm
http://www.highstrangeness.tv/.....holics.php
August 26th, 2011 at 8:29 pm
Barriejohn, how the hell do you find all these great links?
August 26th, 2011 at 8:49 pm
I use “ze leetle grey cells”, Daz!
August 26th, 2011 at 9:17 pm
“But bizarrely, a left-wing German politician appears to be calling for MORE papal involvement in the way in which countries run their affairs.”
Sad, but not surprising really. Many of today’s so-called “left” are already amongst the staunchest supporters of Islamism, so why not jump into bed with the Pope, too, especially as Ratso is also a strong Islamist ally. All this seems to have happened as a by-product of kneejerk anti-American and anti-Israel attitudes that have become fossilised over the years, providing a convenient substitute for critical and progressive thinking. We can expect genuine left-liberals to be increasingly disassociating themselves from the “left” part of the equation, so as not to be identified with the likes of Gysi.
August 26th, 2011 at 10:57 pm
Barrijohn:
Ah, that’s me problem right there! I think I killed most of mine off…
August 27th, 2011 at 1:01 am
But did you have fun, Daz?
August 27th, 2011 at 9:08 am
Umm… Mostly its kind of a blur.
So that’s probably a yes!
August 27th, 2011 at 12:17 pm
“…[Gysi] thanked the Pope for consistently preaching that a modern society must have moral norms in order to function properly.”
Ah, so that’ll be why the poop has done everything he can to cover up all the abuse being carried out by his underlings, and pay for defendants’ lawyers – it’s so he can uphold society’s moral norms!
Either Gysi is a shameless papal apologist, or he simply can’t see the irony in it all. Either way, he shouldn’t be parliamentary leader of anything.
August 27th, 2011 at 12:25 pm
@barriejohn: Brilliant link, bj. Possibly your best ever despite the high standard you have established.
What infuriates me reading the link is that Ratzinger, the head of this criminal organisation, was welcomed, funded and feted in the UK. A former Prime Minister, the egregious Blair, became a Roman Catholic. And his nefarious influence on the promotion of faith schools continues. Also, you never have to wait too long before some RC priest or bishop is given the BBC airwaves while secular opinion is sidelined mostly and banned outright on Thought for the Day. What must we conclude about our cowardly and conniving politicians that they do not even criticise this censorship.
What a bloody country the UK has become after 2000 years of this superstitious cult. Isn’t time to try secularism in both theory and practice.
August 27th, 2011 at 12:49 pm
The lying Tony Blair who said during his election campaign “we don’t do religion” but all the while – probably spurred on by his ghastly catholic wife – promoting it. He was careful not reveal his true allegiance to religious bollocks because he knew he would lose a lot of support. I hold Blair personally responsible for the cancerous spread of religion in the UK. Words cannot express my hatred of this vile man.
August 27th, 2011 at 2:49 pm
@Angela K. He kept quiet about his religion, didn’t he? What we don’t know, but can surmise, is the influence he was peddling for his RC masters behind the scenes. The “values” of his faith were revealed in his involvement in selling the “dodgy document” to his all too compliant associates ready to accept the Weapons of Mass Destruction fantasy. Now, while thousands here and in Iraq, are dead or suffering a lifetime of pain and crippling injury Blair travels the world, his vastly expensive protection paid for from UK taxes, and lectures and adds to his wealth.
Imagine this! You are a previously superbly fit young man , wounded in Iraq and now invalided out of the army minus your legs, your former girlfriend has left you because she could not endure your depression, you have no job, no partner, poor prospects and the sport that you previously loved is no longer possible. You see and hear, almost daily, Blair preaching about what we should all be doing here in the UK and abroad. He is even the UK special envoy to various countries. How would you feel when Blair, with the Blair smarmy smile and faux candour, again comes into view on your television or newspaper?
August 27th, 2011 at 5:16 pm
Does not appear to be much free thinking going on here. Certainly a lot of bigotry, wild accusations and name calling. I thought only those superstitious facists in funny dresses and their sub-human followers did that sort of thing!
August 27th, 2011 at 6:35 pm
@Harold Rosario: Your last sentence is accurate. The first two are christian wishful thinking.
I suggest you read barriejohn’s link about the crimes, present and historical, of the Popes and their followers. Your views on that would offer a test of your objectivity and would be of interest.
August 27th, 2011 at 7:37 pm
Dear Broga,
I have read enough of history to know what results from the promulgation of ideology. The corruption of the Church started with the co-opting by Constatine of the Church into the one of the organs of the power of state. The point I was making was that if secularists (and by this the author and commentors cleary mean atheists), want to be seen as a better way, they need top behave in a way that is not a mirror image of what they are attacking.
To claim that atheists are more tolerant than religious is an example of a pretty long bow that does not stand up under rational scrutiny. To deny the fact that Nazi Germany,Russia and its satellites, Vietnam, China and just about any communist state(which were or are secularist and atheist) are more tolerant than the United Kingdom, the USA or any modern secular state that incorporate a significant percentage of people of faith is just ridiculous.
I can point to as many examples of intolerant atheists and regimes as you can point to intolerant religious and intolerant religious regimes. No one side has an exclusive on intolerance or bigotry. Your description of Ratzinger’s predecessor who as a nazi loving and jew hater is enough for me to conclude that you need to have a good lie down with a hot cuppa.
What really got me was the claim by a commenter that while atheists may be bigoted, cruel snd intolerant at least they are more intelligent that religious scum that will never change their minds no matter how perusasively the argument is made. These wild statements indicate the lack of foundation to your collective arguments and reduce you to being just the same as those that you collectively criticise to wit – raving, foam flecked bigots oozing intolerance.
As a parting shot, I note a comment made by a commenter that Tony Blair was working under cover for the Roman Catholic Church in the UK. I would suggest that all of you that have this view look up the Act of Settlement and all will be clear. No conspiracy there!
August 27th, 2011 at 8:13 pm
@Harold Rosario:
ROFLMAO! Thanks, I needed that. That’s the funniest thing I’ve read tonight. Way to go.
August 27th, 2011 at 8:58 pm
@Harold Rosario: Any chance of using paragraphs? Asking you to be logical and to support your opinions with facts would be asking too much at this stage. Start with short paragraphs and practice comprehensible English. Until you manage that I don’t know what you are trying to say and I doubt if anyone else does – including yourself.
Thanks.
August 27th, 2011 at 9:02 pm
Harold Rosario — a little learning is a dangerous thing. Please do not conflate atheism with any of the political ideologies that certain atheists happen to hold. Different things, see?
August 27th, 2011 at 9:13 pm
Harold Rosario
Check out The Living Dinosaur on YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/results.....living+din
A wonderful combination of science and kick-ass attitude!
August 27th, 2011 at 9:41 pm
Dear Broga,
I have read enough of history to know what results from the promulgation of ideology.
Good start. Downhill all the way from there. (See Tim Danaher’s comment.)
August 28th, 2011 at 12:00 pm
@barriejohn: Not only downhill but gathering speed. Difficult to know whether to laugh or cry.