BEFORE Galileo popped up with the “false” notion that the earth revolves around the sun, the planet was in a far better state, with the Catholic Church in a position of absolute authority over worldly affairs.
That’s the view of a bunch of barmy Catholics in the US who are determined to turn the clock back centuries to a time when geocentrism – the belief that the earth was the centre of the universe – lay at the core of Catholic doctrine.
According to this report, those promoting geocentrism argue that heliocentrism – or the centuries-old consensus among scientists that Earth revolves around the sun – is a conspiracy to squelch the church’s influence.
Class-A lunatic Robert A Sungenis
Robert A Sungenis is the leader of a budding movement to get scientists to reconsider. He insists:
Heliocentrism becomes dangerous if it is being propped up as the true system when, in fact, it is a false system.
False information leads to false ideas, and false ideas lead to illicit and immoral actions – thus the state of the world today .… Prior to Galileo, the church was in full command of the world, and governments and academia were subservient to her.
Sungenis, a convert to Catholicism, is the founder of Bellarmine Theological Forum, renamed from Catholic Apologetics International in August 2007. Sungenis has been described by the Southern Poverty Law Centre as:
One of the most rabid and open anti-Semites in the entire radical traditionalist movement.
The SPLC has included him in its “Dirty Dozen” list after he published an article which repeated “a series of ancient anti-Semitic canards” on the subject of Jewish conversion. He has also made public statements questioning the facts of the Holocaust.
Earlier this year a Catholic conference in London, at which Sungenis was to speak, was cancelled at the last moment.
Another proponent of geocentrism is James Phillips, who attends Our Lady Immaculate Catholic Church in Oak Park, Illinois., a parish run by the Society of St. Pius X, which rejects most of the modernising reforms made by the Vatican II council from 1962 to 1965.
He admits that the modern Church sees the movement as stark staring bonkers.
This subject is, as far as I can see, an embarrassment to the modern church because the world more or less looks upon geocentrism, or someone who believes it, in the same boat as the flat Earth.
Said Brother Guy Consolmagno, curator of meteorites and spokesman for the Vatican Observatory:
I have no idea who these people are. Are they sincere, or is this a clever bit of theatre?
Last autumn the group organised a conference near the University of Notre Dame campus in South Bend, Indiana titled Galileo Was Wrong. The Church Was Right.
Astrophysicists at Notre Dame didn’t appreciate the group hitching its wagon to America’s flagship Catholic university and resurrecting a concept that’s extinct for a reason.
Astrophysics professor Peter Garnavich said:
It’s an idea whose time has come and gone. There are some people who want to move the world back to the 1950s when it seemed like a better time. These are people who want to move the world back to the 1250s.
But supporters contend there is scientific evidence to support geocentrism, just as there is evidence to support the six-day story of creation in Genesis.
Sungenis says that there are many biblical verses which support this notion, and cites Joshua 10:12-14 as definitive proof:
And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, while the nation took vengeance on its foe. … The sun halted in the middle of the sky; not for a whole day did it resume its swift course.
Hat tip: Paul Skiles
The Freethinker was founded in 1881 by GW Foote, an outspoken critic of religion. After the publication of 
August 28th, 2011 at 9:50 am
Nutters.
August 28th, 2011 at 9:58 am
Seriously, these theists are starting to piss me off. But at least we know that we will win in the end. We have all the cards that really count, we have the internet, the media, the music and best of all, access to their kids. It can be done, we can remove the religious crap these abusive parents put in their kids.
It will be tough, but it’s possible and a worthwhile thing to do.
August 28th, 2011 at 10:03 am
“And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, while the nation took vengeance on its foe. … The sun halted in the middle of the sky; not for a whole day did it resume its swift course.”
Because if an object as large and massive as the sun were to suddenly stop moving, it wouldn’t, oh, I don’t know, have to dump all its gravitational energy as gravity waves that would tear the entire solar system apart, would it?
Getting the bastard started again would be a bit tricky, too…
August 28th, 2011 at 10:04 am
Surely these people are attempting the best of all piss takes.
Definitely sourcing their “scientific evidence” from the bible suggests to me that someone is taking the piss, especially as they use Genesis “facts” as support.
I really, really hope this isn’t for real. I don’t think my brain can handle dealing with people who are even more stupid than the ones I usually read about here and other places.
… and anyway, how come they aren’t flat-earthers? From my memory of reading the bible,there’s a lot more support for that than there is for a spherical earth in the centre of the uninverse.
August 28th, 2011 at 10:27 am
I don’t think this bunch are taking the piss – they are simply biblical literalists and are arguably being absolutely honest about what the bible says.
Here’s their take on head coverings for women;
http://www.catholicintl.com/in.....-coverings
We tend to associate head coverings with islam, but I can remember my mum always covering her head when she went into an RC church in the eighties!
August 28th, 2011 at 10:38 am
I suppose they are no crazier than the folks who deny evolution of species, and about half the US population falls into that camp.
August 28th, 2011 at 10:45 am
That time he is talking about, when “the church was in full command of the world, and governments and academia were subservient to her”, was called the Dark Ages.
August 28th, 2011 at 10:56 am
As a child, raised hard line RC, I was taught that the bible was not for the likes of us to interpret because the church was the only source of truth. So catholic bible fundies are a bit of a surprise. Another fine example of ‘you couldn’t make it up’….
August 28th, 2011 at 11:07 am
These guys must have IQ’s in single figures. How anyone can still claim a geocentric view of the universe beggars belief. You can work it out for yourself: note the position of the sun, visible planets and stars over a period of a year and then do some calculations – easy.
August 28th, 2011 at 11:13 am
Look on the bright side: at least they don’t still believe that the earth is flat!
August 28th, 2011 at 12:24 pm
Like evolution, heliocentrism is now “controversial” just because a bunch of nutters disregard the evidence for it.
August 28th, 2011 at 12:32 pm
Surely believing the universe revolves around the earth is no crazier than believing there’s a sky fairy who made everything.
August 28th, 2011 at 12:39 pm
I like the way that when reality proves that their holy book is wrong, they turn it on its head and claim that their holy book proves reality wrong. I think that fruitcakes like these do us a favour though, they draw the attention of the Biblically ignorant to the fact that the Bible contains statements that contradict known and demonstrated facts. I am also with cnocspeireag in that denial of evolution is just as crazy.
August 28th, 2011 at 1:37 pm
this is a joke right?
August 28th, 2011 at 1:41 pm
I’m in full agreement with them. We should also go back to flat earthism. Just one quick question, why aren’t people like this in mental hospitals, they obviously need help.
August 28th, 2011 at 1:57 pm
Sungenis says that there are many biblical verses which support this notion, and cites Joshua 10:12-14 as definitive proof:
The Bible also says the Earth is flat, and rests on pillars. Or are we to believe those who say it’s round are lying, too?
August 28th, 2011 at 2:10 pm
It sounds like this bunch have a lot in common with this loon “The non-moving Earth & anti-evolution web page of The Fair Education Foundation, Inc. Exposing the False Science Idol of Evolutionism, and Proving the Truthfulness of the Bible from Creation to Heaven…” See his web page http://www.fixedearth.com/.
A word of warning – the fonts, colours and layout therein may damage the eyes.
August 28th, 2011 at 2:31 pm
Not Galileo, Copernicus! That’s why the concept of heliocentricism is often called the Copernican revolution. At least they could get their bloody history right.
August 28th, 2011 at 2:45 pm
That’s quite a mouthful of a title, Number 80. What is it about fundamentalists that they cannot be succinct?
August 28th, 2011 at 2:52 pm
JohnMWhite
I think it’s religiously-contracted verbal diarrhoea – or to put it more succinctly, talking shit.
August 28th, 2011 at 2:54 pm
You’re right, Daz. But if God created the sun AFTER he had created the heavens and the earth (as Genesis makes plain), it stands to reason that it orbits the earth just like all the other heavenly bodies do!
August 28th, 2011 at 4:04 pm
I can’t help but wonder how people could possibly believe stuff like this. I’m not talking about geocentrism, which is actually a fairly reasonable idea because it is so intuitive. That’s not to say that I believe it’s correct, but that I can understand how reasonable people could come to such a conclusion simply because that’s what it looks like. I don’t think children, for instance, are insane for thinking that the sun actually goes around the earth. But let’s put that aside, what IS crazy is the idea that there is a massive conspiracy to cover all this up.
When it comes to things like this, the only way it is possible to believe such nonsense is to assume massive conspiracy. But when you think about it, the larger and more complex a conspiracy, the less likely that it actually exists. Also the less reason people have to support the conspiracy, the less likely it is to exist. In this particular instance, the reason “to squelch the church’s influence” is more than a bit weak. Granted, when you think the devil is pulling the strings behind the scenes, perhaps it would seem a bit more plausible. Although, if I were going to do something like that, I would pick something with a bit more weight behind it. Christians bounced back quick after the discovery that the earth revolves around the sun. It has little to no actually bearing on their core doctrine, so why attack it at all?
I suppose when you have a martyr complex, are taught that the better you do the more you will be persecuted, and believe in a mythical devil who will turn everyone in the world against you if he has to… you’re bound to become a conspiracy theorist.
One of these days, the child that is humanity will grow up. I put us at around 6-7 years old. In any case, I see this as a symptom, not the real problem. The real problem is that our educational system is so lacking in this country that people actually can believe this sort of thing. With proper science education, this sort of thing wouldn’t happen… or would happen less and less.
August 28th, 2011 at 5:23 pm
Actually, it’s possible, on a purely geometrical basis, to make the Earth, Titan, a speck of dust in the asteroid belt, or any other point in the system, the centre. Granted a diagram would look like a drunkard’s attempt to use a Spirograph, but you could do it.
The problem comes when you try to assign a cause. Gravity’s out of the question, as gravity is directly related to mass, and that would put the sun back at the centre. But then, I s’pose they’d say that God keeps it all in line.
On a related note: those ID-iots who try to explain the apparent age of the universe by saying the speed of light was higher 6,000 years ago, and has decreased for some unexplained reason.
e=mc^2 means that if c was higher, then e must have been, too. Which means sunlight would’ve been much more energetic, and Adam and Eve would’ve been so much barbecue…
August 28th, 2011 at 6:37 pm
Another twitch of what remains of their religion corrupted brains and they could be wanting burning at the stake, stretching on the rack and working over with hot irons those who deny their earth centred belief. Middle ages here they come.
August 28th, 2011 at 7:06 pm
“Heliocentrism becomes dangerous if it is being propped up as the true system when, in fact, it is a false system.
False information leads to false ideas, and false ideas lead to illicit and immoral actions – thus the state of the world today .… Prior to Galileo, the church was in full command of the world, and governments and academia were subservient to her.”
I love circular reasoning.
August 28th, 2011 at 7:16 pm
They’re in competition with the Westboro church crazies. It’s the advertising they crave and the insane converts that they need to keep going. The more the media does the news on anyone that stupid, the more people in the US laugh about it. Maybe it turns America into the clown country, but I guess too many of us don’t care enough to change it. Laugh with us, not at us? *shrug*
August 28th, 2011 at 7:28 pm
Paul
Or, in this case, possibly elliptical reasoning.
I’ll get me coat…
August 28th, 2011 at 7:56 pm
I love this quote.
As he was lead away by the Inquisition to spend the rest of his life under house arrest for daring to observe that the Earth actually moves around the Sun, Galileo was reputed to have said “Eppur si muove” – “And yet it moves”.
Good lad!
August 28th, 2011 at 8:07 pm
“False information leads to false ideas, and false ideas lead to illicit and immoral actions…”
A perfect description of religion.
August 28th, 2011 at 8:14 pm
Un flippen believable, these people ridicule science and choose to ignore everything they use today was the results of science. Do they even consider what brings the power into their homes and why all they have to do is flip a switch to receive light? Much science involved with that simple act.
I was in a conversation with one of these types who ridicule science in general and when presented with the science of electricity he used everyday and the science of harnessing it he said, “God gave man the intelligence to do such things.†I replied with, “So god is a scientist!†With a blank stare he said, “you need to prey moreâ€, than walked away…end of conversation.
And that is the way they think…belief outweighs any and all proof or logic.
August 28th, 2011 at 8:31 pm
I once had an argument with a Catholic journalist over Galileo. He insisted that the church never really endorsed the idea that Earth was the center of the universe, simply because no pope ever said the Earth was the center of things, while sitting ex cathedra. Which, of course, I thought was a strange angle to take, being that Galileo was locked up for the rest of his life and died under house arrest, essentially for saying that the Earth wasn’t the center of the universe, and being that his arrest was directed by the “Holy” See.
August 28th, 2011 at 8:42 pm
And then the cheeky, hypocritical bastards have the gall to actually put on an exhibition celebrating Galileo’s thinking. http://www.usatoday.com/news/r.....-honor.htm
Just shows how utterly shameless the RCC really is.
August 28th, 2011 at 9:01 pm
On a par with scientology. Completely lala.
August 28th, 2011 at 11:04 pm
Graham- sorry- I spend a lot of time saying this to people as a mental health professional- just because someone has weird ideas doesn’t make them mentally ill
this includes religious ideas – to a layman it all looks the same but to people who work in the profession there is a distinct difference
August 28th, 2011 at 11:51 pm
One of my biggest pet peeves is done by Robert Sungenis…on his own website he titles himself with a Ph.D when in fact his doctorate was obtained from an unaccredited university. I’m sorry, but anyone who does this sets off warning signs for me and then to find out what he believes dealing with our solar system just makes him a man worth ignoring.
August 29th, 2011 at 12:56 am
All religions, when they follow their internal logic to its conclusion, turn out to be innately hostile to learning and inquiry. The name of that Nigerian terrorist group says it all: Boko Haram – Knowledge is Forbidden.
August 29th, 2011 at 1:31 am
Psychodiva – I’m a psychotherapist and I rely on the textbook definition of a delusion – ‘a fixed false belief’.
Arguably this can apply to religiosity per se, but I don’t go that far. However, to suggest the people who claim these things to be true, and mean it, are not delusional is preposterous. They are clearly heavily invested in a complex and reasonably internally coherent delusional construction.
If you had a client sitting in front of you adamant that the earth was the centre of the universe and expecting you to join them in thinking this then you would be negligent to not start tentativley investigating their reality testing capabilities and looking into psychosis, schizophrenia, organic brain disease and so on.
They probably would not warrant hospitalisation but could very easily be suffering from a wide variety of psychopathologies. Not crazy enough to be sectioned is not necessarily the same as sane. If this guy is perfectly sincere this goes a long way beyong holding weird ideas and I’m open to the possibility that he has some serious underlying issue(s).
August 29th, 2011 at 2:21 am
Shouldn’t people like this be deemed dangerous…. and be locked up for the good of humanity?
August 29th, 2011 at 5:59 am
Why not let them run their rope as the saying goes? If they have something, then let’s see it. If they don’t, what’s the harm? Nobody’s going to believe it without evidence. If they say it’s a matter of faith, fine. They can believe whatever they want to believe. Who cares? But if they want to take it to the scientific community, then let them come. Why are so many people pouncing on them omnidirectionally? Personally I have no idea what rotates around what. I just believe what I read in the textbooks. But I couldn’t prove it if my life depended upon it.
August 29th, 2011 at 10:26 am
@CriticalEyeYayeye
No, because that kind of thinking is itself dangerous. Just because an idea is unpopular does not always mean that it is false. So who gets to decide whose ideas are dangerous and who gets to be incarcerated? Historically it has generally been monarchs, dictators and clerics. These are not people generally known for their ability to seperate truth from falsehood.
August 29th, 2011 at 12:35 pm
I checked out the website mentioned above – the one about head coverings the guy has authored. You have to question what is the real motivation of people to believe this way. He is supposed to be a convert to Catholicism. He may have a twisted view of the world but he seems sincere in his belief that what it says in the bible is immutable fact. But why would you believe that? In other words what’s in it for him? Is there some inadequacy in his own makeup that drives his need to believe that stuff? Fear of women perhaps or some other kind of feeling of inferiority. And why feel the need to push it down other people’s throats? There has to be some flaw in this guy’s psyche that motivates him. Perhaps it’s a power thing?
August 29th, 2011 at 2:35 pm
We in the 21st century still have to put-up with people being taken seriously with there believes being dictated by human self corruptions for delusional control ingeneral. The black-plaque of the mind is religion used to oppress the freedoms of actionary truths of science and keep us ignorant of humanity’s true loving nature for right and wrong or our brutal nature of becoming feral without honest rules and unbiased education to keep-us inline!!
August 29th, 2011 at 2:49 pm
@Psychodiva:
I have no knowledge in this area so I must take what you say to be correct. Can I just slap them about a bit then for being stupid? (It’s a joke!).
August 29th, 2011 at 3:34 pm
Here ya go. Physical proof that the physics and maths used to describe a heliocentric solar system are correct.
August 29th, 2011 at 7:24 pm
Religious people prove the need for pharmaceuticals, the need for psychiatry, and the need for places that can put people away.
August 30th, 2011 at 1:25 am
Sungenis obtained a Ph.D. in 2006 from the Calamus International University, an unaccredited distance learning institution which is noted, according to Sungenis, “for its academic freedom and alternative science and religious curriculum”. His 700-page dissertation was on the subject of geocentrism. (Wikipedia)
Ho, hum.
August 30th, 2011 at 4:55 pm
Are these people any more nuts than anyone who believes in a Sky Daddy? I was raised in a VERY RC family and was a very active RC until about 3 years ago when I began to realize that all religious belief makes no sense. So while I find these nut cases absurd, I find all religious beliefs absurd.
August 31st, 2011 at 5:57 pm
DR. ROBERT SUNGENIS WHO IS CITED IN THIS ARTICLE HAS POSTED A SUPERB REPLY TO IT AT HIS SITE, http://WWW.GALILEOWASWRONG.COM.
September 1st, 2011 at 10:43 pm
OMG! CAPITAL LETTERS! IT MUST BE TRUE!
THAT’S RIGHT JAMES PHILLIPS (AND “DR.” SUNGENIS)- WHAT YOU LACK IN EVIDENCE, MAKE UP FOR IN VOLUME – AND HOPE PEOPLE ARE TOO STUPID TO NOTICE.
Sensible ideas stand on their own merits, and don’t need capital letters to speak for them.
September 2nd, 2011 at 12:55 pm
Nutcases like these have been around for years and none of them (including these idiots) can explain the apparent retrograde motion of the outer planets. Without being able to explain this, their ‘theories’ are total horseshit.
September 3rd, 2011 at 8:47 pm
To me, Dr. Sungenis looks like a double agent. He’ll be interesting to watch.