SWITZERLAND’S official flag – bearing a distinctive white cross on a red background – has been around since 1848, but Muslims in the country are now claiming that it is offensive and want it replaced.
According to this report, Second@s Plus, a lobbying group that represents mostly Muslim second-generation Swiss residents is about to launch a nationwide campaign for a less offensive replacement. It says the national flag, with its Christian symbol:
No longer corresponds to today’s multicultural Switzerland.
- The Swiss National flag needs replacing, according to pushy Muslims
Ivica Petrusic, Vice President of the group, said last month:
Switzerland today has a great religious and cultural diversity. One has to ask if the State wants to continue building up a symbol in which many people no longer believe.
Petrusic added that Switzerland needs new symbols with which everyone, including non-Christians, can identify. As an alternative to the current Swiss flag, Petrusic proposed the former flag of the Helvetic Republic (see image here) which was officially introduced in 1799 and consisted of green, red and yellow colors.
Those colors are similar to the current flags of Bolivia and Ghana and would represent a more progressive and open-minded Switzerland.
His proposal has met with outrage across the political spectrum.
Sylvia Flückiger a councillor with the conservative Swiss People’s Party (SVP) said the demands are:
Totally unacceptable. With our Swiss flag there is nothing to change. The next thing you know, they will demand even more, that we change our constitution.
And Marianne Binder, spokeswoman for the center-right Christian Democrats (CVP) asserted:
The Swiss flag is part of Swiss identity, precisely because it is inviting for all to want to be involved…even the immigrants.
Stefan Brupbacher, general secretary of the libertarian Free Democrats (FDP) added:
This is utter nonsense. The Swiss cross is an extremely successful and valuable global brand. It is a symbol of success and quality. We will tightly hold on to it, out of love for Switzerland.
Hudson New York points out that the Muslim population in Switzerland has more than quintupled since 1980, and now numbers about 400,000, or roughly five percent of the population. Most Muslims living in Switzerland are of Turkish or Balkan origin, with a smaller minority from the Arab world. Many of them are second- and third-generation immigrants who are now firmly establishing themselves in Switzerland.
The new Muslim demographic is raising tensions across large parts of Swiss society, especially as Muslims become more assertive in their demands for greater recognition of their Islamic faith.
In recent years the number of mosques in Switzerland has mushroomed; there now are over 200 mosques and up to 1,000 prayer rooms dotted across the country. Critics fear the mosques are facilitating the establishment of a parallel Muslim society – one that is especially attractive to Islamic fundamentalists.
Hat tip: BarrieJohn
The Freethinker was founded in 1881 by GW Foote, an outspoken critic of religion. After the publication of 
October 2nd, 2011 at 11:58 am
Actually, I don’t this these Muzzie religionuts give a toss about the flag. They have learned the tactic of endless demands,based on criteria only they may determine, to keep everyone else off balance. We see it here both from muslims and christians. They seek out offence to force others into retreat and apologies.
The time is long overdue for the secularists to start demanding changes to meet their sensitivities. And the list is long: faith schools, unelected bishops in the House of Lords, BBC infiltrating, and swamping on Sundays, its programmes with religion, prayers, chaplains (at great cost) in hospitals and the military, interference by religion in politics, paying for Ratzinger to come here to abuse us, the daily hectoring (increasingly by RC priests) of the rest of us. That will do for a start. I could continue.
October 2nd, 2011 at 12:09 pm
It isn’t a cross, because it isnot longer on the bottom. It is a plus sign. Do they hate mathematics? Because I should warn them that Muslims made great contributions to Mathematics back in the Dark Ages.
October 2nd, 2011 at 12:20 pm
Broga: I couldn’t agree more – they are just looking for things with which to take offence, and for the reasons that you give. Don’t miss the “celebration” of 500 years of Songs of Praise this afternoon, will you? Even my mother, when switching on yet another of those interminable “snooty rich city couple look for another over-priced country residence in ridiculous attempt to look like one of the locals” programmes, caught sight of Aled Jones and said: “Not him again – he seems to be on everything these days!”.
October 2nd, 2011 at 12:22 pm
When will the endless apologists for Muslims ever learn? The more you give the more they will take, enough is never enough.
Stop the pathetic hand wringing over imagined slights and realise that the dream of a ‘multicultural Switzerland’ or any country in Europe, will never work with muslims.
Ask them to give up any part of their identity and see the hysterical reactions.
October 2nd, 2011 at 12:28 pm
http://youtu.be/fyLUHK6MGFM
October 2nd, 2011 at 12:44 pm
As far as I can see, it’s mission accomplished for the religiots. All they want is attention, and by reacting so vocally the Swiss authorities have given them just that.
Surely the best way to deal with such idiotic demands as these is to ignore them completely.
October 2nd, 2011 at 2:14 pm
There is no evidence in this article, or any of those linked to, that even a single Muslim has claimed to be offended by the Swiss flag.
The story originates from an interview with Ivica Petrusic (there’s a name to strike fear into the hearts of crusaders!), the leader of the group SecondasPlus. They appear to be a bunch of well-meaning – perhaps woolly-headed – Swiss liberals. There’s a picture of them here. Not exactly al Mujharoon, are they?
Petrusic is now stepping back from his claim, and denying absolutely that he wants the Swiss flag to be replaced.
I would agree that the man is probably an idiot – if only because he has so cluelessly provided fodder for those who want to promote the “Islamification of Europe” idea.
October 2nd, 2011 at 3:38 pm
Thanks, Dave. It’s always best to check sources before engaging outrage. Ivica Petrusic apparently describes himself as a christian while Hisham Maizar, head οf Federation οf Islamic Organisations Ñ–n Switzerland, opposed the proposal as ‘counter-productive’.
http://paraisrael.com/2011/09/.....-proposal/
Is the Hudson NY organisation considered a reliable source?
October 2nd, 2011 at 3:47 pm
That’s a useful correction, Dave. They look like a bunch of smug irritants.
October 2nd, 2011 at 5:01 pm
Demand, no. Campaign for change, why not, it’s a democracy after all, anyone can campaign for a change in the constitution (dunno if they would ever get that change).
October 2nd, 2011 at 5:28 pm
Next thing you know, they will demand Google change their Google+ logo, as it resembles a cross. Also, the Facebook logo, an “f”, which also must look like a cross to a lot of muslims.
I wonder why don’t they demand the demolition of the huge Christ the Savior statue in Rio. That must really offend them.
October 2nd, 2011 at 5:48 pm
Like Gordon says, it looks more like a plus-sign than a regular cross. Has anyone given thought to the fact that most Swiss mountains are higher than minarets, which can be outrageous, too? Should they be flattened to prevent precious feelings from being hurt?
October 2nd, 2011 at 7:45 pm
Haven’t we already established that there is no evidence that any muslim either requested or demanded this?
Maybe an update to the article would help. Something like ‘Neo-con Think Tank Stirs Shit’?
October 2nd, 2011 at 8:04 pm
It’s funny some times what will upset people. I really think that these Muslims should just get over themselves, it’s just a flag. They most likely have nothing better to do than to just complain about something that they don’t like. The flag has been there for ages, and you don’t just change a flag because someone finds it “offensive”. A lot of people, I’m sure, find the American Flag offensive (must be why they burn it) but it’s been there for decades.
Changing the flag would just mean more costs for the government and the vendors who make the flags. These people don’t think about the underlying costs of doing something that seems “simple” to them.
This also goes to show about how egocentric we humans are. It’s all about me and I don’t care about what anyone else thinks, I want it done my way or the highway.
October 2nd, 2011 at 10:41 pm
It has most certainly NOT been “established” that no Muslims were behind this proposal. These people are mainly second generation immigrants – hence their name – and doubtless a smattering of useful idiots. Muslims had to have The Red Crescent instead of The Red Cross, and now even more symbols are in use, in a doomed effort to please everyone. All this petty squabbling over such irrelevant details is just typical of religions in general.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/s.....51207.html
October 2nd, 2011 at 10:52 pm
barriejohn – you are missing the point. When I come across an article entitled “Muslims offended” I expect it to contain at least some offended Muslims. Call me old fashioned.
October 2nd, 2011 at 11:02 pm
It has most certainly NOT been “established†that no Muslims were behind this proposal.
The assertion was that this was a demand made by muslims.
There has been no evidence for that claim.
I certainly can’t assert that no muslim anywhere wants to change the swiss flag. I’m just saying there is so far no evidence of one. The only, purported, proponent we have named is an (apparently) christian odd-ball.
So it most certainly HAS been established that no serious evidence has been produced to support this publicity stunt by some dodgy people with an agenda.
October 2nd, 2011 at 11:24 pm
But he’s the vice-president of Second@sPlus, who represent mainly Muslims. They have been lobbying for a “multicultural” Swiss anthem as well:
http://www.microsofttranslator.....3fid%3d236
As I said: “Useful Idiots”!
October 3rd, 2011 at 12:02 am
Hey, Muslim sand monkeys…. go back to your damn desert, if you don’t like the flag of the country you moved to. It’s your job to adapt to the country you moved to, and not try to change it to fit you!!!
October 3rd, 2011 at 12:07 am
Actually, Muslims….. go back to your desert, and pound sand up your butts!
October 3rd, 2011 at 12:25 am
For those suggesting that the cross on the flag isn’t a Christian cross, you maybe need to read the article linked from the OP:
Not that it makes much difference; my national flag has three Christian saints’ crosses on it, and it doesn’t bother me a jot. Bit like the ‘days of the week’ discussion we had the other day—if we started out to expunge our obviously religious past, we’d have hardly any history left, and even that probably wouldn’t make sense if examined without taking the religion of the people involved into account.
As to whether it’s Muslims or not, I’m not particularly bothered. either way, it’s a bunch of interfering nutters using religion as an excuse try to force others to their way of thinking, whether it’s their own religion or not.
I’m not sure where all this “There’s no mention of Muslims” is coming from, though, seeing as another link in the OP (cant link it; I’ll be flagged for moderation if I do a second link) contains this paragraph, clearly stating who the Secondas group represent:
(I do concede that if it isn’t Muslims, then the idiots in question are also guilty of misrepresenting Muslims’ views and of possibly furthering the cause of right-wingers who love to blame everything on Muslims by giving easy fodder to Daily Fail journalists and the like.)
October 3rd, 2011 at 12:26 am
I had never thought of the Swiss flag as bearing a cross. It looks cool to me. Now if it pictured some dude plastered against it, that would get a rise from me.
October 3rd, 2011 at 12:30 am
Damnit, I’ve been held for moderation for some reason.
Short version:
Read the bloody links in the OP. The group do represent Muslims, and the origin of the cross is Christian.
October 3rd, 2011 at 3:48 am
Just ignore idiot religion !
October 3rd, 2011 at 5:53 am
I thought it was the logo for those wee Swiss army knife thingies, you know, the ones with all the teensy tools. Perhaps for the muzzy market they could include a sticker to put over the offending bit with, say a handgrenade or bomb on it. That’d keep ‘em happy!
October 3rd, 2011 at 8:40 am
Greek cross… this is a quarrel of human cretinery.
October 3rd, 2011 at 9:18 am
Wasn’t there some fuss a few years ago about the City of London crest including a cross and all the fundies up in arms demanding a change so that it wouldn’t offend death cultists?
October 3rd, 2011 at 12:51 pm
@Don: No. The Hudson institute is a completely unreliable source. It is a neocon think tank with the usual fascist agenda. It is not in any way a news organization. It is a propaganda center. It has zero credibility.
October 3rd, 2011 at 2:12 pm
How do you make a Swiss cross?
October 3rd, 2011 at 2:25 pm
@Gordon Campbell
How do you make a Swiss cross?
Quote him out of context and twist his words into a bullshit Islamification-of-Europe story for a right-wing American think tank?
That, or piss in his muesli.
October 3rd, 2011 at 2:36 pm
He originally put forward this idea in an interview published in Aargauer Zeitung. Whether they, too, are “neocons” I have no idea, but they are certainly perplexed by his apparent recantation!
http://www.microsofttranslator.....-113455961
Swiss immigrants do experience real problems, and as the Muslim representative – and others above – have said, this sort of gibberish is counter productive to say the least. If it was, as he now claims, solely his own idea, why did they plan the “flag action” in October?
PS This bit of the translation is brilliant:
Really? You do not campaign on the knob of foreigners?
October 3rd, 2011 at 3:25 pm
The death threats are inexcusable, but oh, so predictable. However, I think I get the gist of this comment:
You may not threaten but a soo friendly people! You should simply provide him to the border, where it belongs.
http://www.microsofttranslator.....-113906673
October 3rd, 2011 at 4:58 pm
I live in Switzerland and although I’ve seen this spat in a local paper it hasn’t really been a big story. And Mr Petrusic has tried to ‘clarify’ matters (you can read ‘backpeddle, if you like) on his blog at http://ivica-petrusic.ch/blog.html, with this entry (in German; my translation…..sorry, I live in the French speaking part!).
Correction: Secondas Plus do not want to abolish the Swiss flag!
Various media have, in the Sunday papers of 18th September 2011 and again today, published a distorted story in connection with Secondas Plus and the Swiss flag. In reality, this story dates back to a presentation that was made during a press conference for the National Council candidacies of 23 August 2011.
The media reported correctly (and was present there at first hand) about a speech by the national candidate Ivica Petrusic. Mr. Petrusic (Incidentally, he is himself a Christian) said that even symbols are subject to change over time. Thus, the Confederation had at least three different national anthems during the Helvetic Republic and has had a tricolour flag without any religious references. He proposed to take a look at our present ideas and symbols to ask whether they are still fit for purpose (zeitgemäss, which properly means ‘contemporary).
From this speech an alleged demand from Secondas Plus for the abolition of the Swiss flag has been constructed. This allegation is absurd and, most of all, untrue. Secondas Plus stands by the Swiss flag and fights on many other fronts. Secondas Plus regrets any wrongs and injuries which may have resulted from this misunderstanding and would be happy if their main concerns would receive as much media interest. For example, just as the ‘ceremony of the foreigner-friendly city’ on 23rd September 2011 in the riding school in Bern.
October 3rd, 2011 at 5:36 pm
@ Gordon Cambell… How do you make a Swiss cross? Take his chocolate away………
October 3rd, 2011 at 5:41 pm
OK, you want a Swiss joke…..
A Swiss guy, looking for directions, pulls up at a bus stop where two Englishmen are waiting. “Entschuldigung, können Sie Deutsch sprechen?” He asks. The two Englishmen just stare at him. “Excusez-moi, parlez-vous français?” The two continue to stare. “Parlate italiano?” No response. “Hablan Ustedes espagnol?” Still nothing. The Swiss guy drives off, extremely disgusted.
The first Englishman turns to the second and says: “Y’know, maybe we should learn a foreign language…”
“Why?” says the other, “that bloke knew four languages, and it didn’t do him any good.”
October 3rd, 2011 at 5:48 pm
To be fair to Ivan Petrusic, there is in Switzerland, and particularly active in the German part, a political party called the UDC, L’Union démocratique du centre. They are (very) right wing and it’s not really possible to deny that they are xenophobic. They’re also very popular. So, poking them with a sharp stick (like a stroky beard sort of critique of the lack of inclusiveness shown by the Swiss flag) might just be someone’s idea of a good joke.
October 4th, 2011 at 12:48 am
So, will the headline be moderated in the light of this discussion? To reflect the fact that so far no muslim has been produced who favours this alleged proposal.
October 7th, 2011 at 2:43 am
If they’re pissed off at this symbol, wait till one of them awakens to the fact that anywhere two paths meet at right angles, it makes–OH NO A CROSS!
Guess we’ll have to bomb all the cities flat and re-lay them out as Dark Ages goat herding villages made of muck.
October 7th, 2011 at 2:44 am
How do you make a Swiss cross?
Take away his K31 and bar all Schutzenfesten.