News

Irish schools must accommodate Islam

Irish schools must accommodate Islam

A spokesman for the Muslim community in Ireland has called for radical change in the educational system to accommodate children with Islamic beliefs.

According to the Irish Times, Dr Ali Selim, of the Islamic Cultural Centre in Dublin’s Clonskeagh and a lecturer in the Mater Dei Institute and Trinity College, has called for “a revolution of inclusivity” in Irish schools and “an upheaval in Irish educational perspectives”.

This was necessary to accommodate the needs of a society which is now “home to a variety of Christian denominations, as well as people of other faiths and of none”, he says in his book Islam and Education in Ireland, to be published next week.

Estimating that of approximately 65,000 Muslims in Ireland today as many as 20,000 would be in the under-18 school-going age, he relates difficulties these young people face when it comes to admission to schools, as well as their problems with PE classes, relationship and sexuality education, music and drama classes, and practice of their faith during school hours.

Muslim festivals are neither celebrated or marked in the calendar in Irish schools.

He suggests they be days off for Muslim children. During Ramadan, the month of fasting, Muslims give to charity and schools could co-operate by “raising funds for the poor and the needy”. But no raffles, please.

Any form of raffle is strictly forbidden in Islam.

About the Relationships and Sexuality Education (RSE) programme in schools Dr Selim says there are “crucial differences” with regards to Islam.

It forbids pre- and extramarital sexual relations, whereas RSE perceives sexual relations outside wedlock as part of normal practices.

He suggests there is “a clash of values” also between Islam and “traditional ways of teaching PE”.

In some schools:

Under the guise of health and safety, Muslim girls are obliged to take off their headscarves for PE classes, which is not acceptable to them.

Where schools were “persistent”, they should:

Employ a female PE teacher and provide students with a sports hall not accessible to men during times when girls are at play. They should also not be visible to men while at play.

Also, Muslim girls would resist changing clothes in a communal area.

When it came to music some Muslims would see it as prohibited but Selim says there’s wiggle room:

If music is performed using non-tuneable percussion instruments such as drums, most Muslims will have no problem.

Turning to school plays Dr Selim insisted that

Gender role-reversal is not permissible.

Furthermore:

Acting  in a way that may arouse sexual feeling or give sexual hints causes objection.

36 responses to “Irish schools must accommodate Islam”

  1. Broga says:

    “It forbids pre- and extramarital sexual relations” but is enthusiastic about chopping off the clitoris of baby girls by non medical religious sadists. The result is a lifetime of suffering to appease insecure males.

    Also likes women to be serfs and ready to stone them if they are thought to offend their bullying husbands. It is also acceptable to kill those who offend the paedophile prophet.

  2. Nelmonster says:

    Any demand from these religious nuts that we should change our ways to suit their delusion should be met with a resounding chorus of, “Fuck off!”.
    As it is the authorities will probably turn around, pull their trousers to their ankles and meekly ask, “Please sir, can I have another?”.
    All religion out of schools, and especially islam, not more please.

  3. Norman Paterson says:

    If they can’t stand state education, it’ll have to be home schooling.

    Really, you have to wonder how they can stand being in Ireland at all.

  4. L.Long says:

    Simple answer…phuck OFF!!
    Longer answer ….your religious BS is YOUR problem NOT MINE!!!
    don’t like what the schools are doing based on our culture, then open and pay for your own schools.
    Alternate Answer…..great idea! Let’s give in to these bigoted aholes. It will be great to have my daughter hide under a tent all day and be separated from boys cuz that way they will never learn to interact with people. And our son can learn the joys of misogyny, and learning that girls have no worth other than as property of some ahole male. Sounds great!

  5. David Anderson says:

    Oh come on everybody, he’s only asking for the same acommodation that would be given to a non-muslim in any Islamic country. See how well they treat Christians, people of other faiths and of none.

  6. zombiehunter says:

    Surely the people in Ireland of all places know why pandering to any religion is a bad idea??

  7. L.Long says:

    Well David what type of accommodation would you need in an islame country??
    Oh I know I learn better when I’m in the same room as the girls.
    Think I’d get it???? Yes I know that you were being sarcastic in your comment, I just had to answer the 1st sentence!

  8. AgentCormac says:

    Surely the people in Ireland of all places know why pandering to any religion is a bad idea??

    Spot on. And what a dilemma for the RCC. If they oppose muslim practices being tolerated in the very institutions where they have traditionally held a monopoly on brainwashing children, then why should their own practices be endured?

  9. Stephen Mynett says:

    I think this is a great idea, although we still have the sectarian hatred of protestants and catholics it is, very slowly, diminishing. So if that is finally wiped out the religionists will need a new war, sunni versus shia would be an obvious choice. It would be dreadfully unfair of us as atheists to deny these god-loving people a chance to indoctrinate, maim and murder those who do not pray in the ‘correct way’.

  10. Trevor Blake says:

    I looked for Dr. Selim’s previous book on how Muslim nations must be a home to a variety of Christian denominations, as well as people of other faiths and of none. I couldn’t find it. Perhaps the store was out of stock. Or perhaps the language of inclusion and diversity has been occupied by those who wish no such things.

  11. andym says:

    Doesn’t seem to be any research or evidence showing this is what the majority want, just him spouting off what he thinks should happen.

    Looks like another case of a loudmouth arsehole presuming to speak for the whole of a heterogeneous community in order to advance his own prominence.

  12. A Confused Atheist says:

    Why should Irish schools go out of their way to ‘accommodate’ Islam? Why should Irish schools go out of their way to accommodate any religion into state schools?!

  13. sailor1031 says:

    Do they elect community spokesmen in Ireland? Or did he just appoint himself? Ummmmm, yes…..I see….
    He could always just go back to whatever benighted medieval hole he came from where I’m sure he would be much happier. But of course he won’t.

    Has the muslim population of the republic now passed the magic 4% level at which being nice stops and being implacably demanding begins?

  14. Stephen Turner says:

    Ireland actually used to have a system of
    national lay primary schools, set up by the
    British authorities in the 1830s, decades
    before there was universal schooling elsewhere
    in the UK. The churches were in favour at first,
    but then they decided they preferred to educate
    “their own” ones. The Presbyterians were the
    first to object.

    The scheme was established by Edward Stanley,
    later British PM.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_letter

  15. Barry Duke says:

    Meeamwhile, it is reported here that the UK has acquired 30 new “faith schools” – three of them Islamic.
    https://humanism.org.uk/2014/09/03/30-religious-state-schools-open-doors/

  16. matt says:

    looks like Ireland has issues to deal with

  17. John C says:

    Im i the only one thinking”if you dont like it, tough, move to a muslim theocracy and everything will be hunky dory for you”?

  18. John C says:

    The asholes will probably just hop over to England, where the government will bow to them out of political correctness instead of telling them resoundingly to “fuck off and when in rome do as the romans do”

  19. AgentCormac says:

    @John C

    As opposed to staying in Ireland where ‘when in Roman Catholic territory do what the Roman Catholics do’ is probably more apt.

  20. Jeffrey Jones says:

    This guy’s in the “Mater Dei Institute. I would have thought the concept of “Mater Dei” would be anathema to Muslims, it should surely be an heretical concept to any follower of the Islamic ideology. This guy is lucky he’s in Ireland, if he was in one of the countries in the Middle East could have his head removed from his shoulders.

  21. barriejohn says:

    Well said, Dr Selim. I agree with him 100%. Society nowadays is “home to a variety of Christian denominations, as well as people of other faiths and of none”, therefore a secular education fits the bill perfectly and no one is upset!

  22. barriejohn says:

    Stephen Turner: That’s interesting. Although they used the Bible as their text book, and included church attendance and “catechism”, Sunday Schools were basically set up because Robert Raikes and others understood the primary importance of literacy. They were the precursors of state schools in Great Britain.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunday_school

  23. John says:

    That great Irishman Spike Milligan once said “Keep the Pope off the Moon”.
    Perhaps we should all add to that “Keep religions out of schools”!
    Reading what this guy says makes any truly rational person queasy.
    His rationales are truly appalling.
    His religion, his culture and his values are revolting.
    They should throw him out of Ireland back to where he came from.

  24. 1859 says:

    This is just what Ireland needs now isn’t it? After spending centuries in the mental vice of roman catholicism and only now beginning to shake itself free, along comes another bucket of superstition for children to swallow!

    Ireland should be the first country in the world to declare itself a truly secular state – where people are free to practice whatever brand of superstition they wanted as long as it is their own private affair and they didn’t try and push it down anyone else’s throats – especially childrens’ throats. The entire body politic, institutions, schools etc., would be purged of religious influence and all churches turned into bouncy castles! Ahhh! What a dream!

  25. Robster says:

    I often wonder how the Muslims keep a straight face when asking normal people to respect their particularly silly nonsense. They must go home afterwards and laugh their heads off, if they’re allowed to laugh that is. I wonder, do they unwrap their ladies long enough to see to whom they’re talking or do they assume they’ve got the right one without a perfunctory check. They must be very trusting of all mobile black bags when really it could be any women instead of their regular women in a black bag. They probably don’t care as long as the person in the black bag does whatever they’re told to do. Why do regular, normal people put up with any of this muslim stuff. It’s beyond belief.

  26. Txolene says:

    The medieval hole he came from is Egypt. If he doesn´t like de “arab Spring” he can to to ISIS. Bye, bye

  27. Ex Patriot says:

    This might be something the IRA could take care of, it would benefit everyone if they did the same as they used to do to the English.I don’t live in the UK but I do live in Europe and as far as I’m concerned the rag heads can all go back to their rat infested desert waste lands and take their foul evil religion with them

  28. barriejohn says:

    Ex Patriot: We need to be careful not to support racist views. Where did Christianity come from?

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/nigel-farage-says-britain-needs-to-stand-up-for-its-judeochristian-values-to-combat-homegrown-militants-9708082.html

    I assume that your remarks about the IRA were tongue in cheek!

  29. barriejohn says:

    This – from a bunch of faith-heads – does actually seem to be a step in the right direction:

    http://accordcoalition.org.uk/2014/09/02/religious-leaders-launch-first-manifesto-for-faith-schools/

    At least they seem aware, unlike many politicians, of what is really going on in “faith schools”.

  30. Brummie says:

    How can a Manifesto for Faith Schools work when, by definition, each thinks that their particular sky-fairy is the only true one?

  31. Ex Patriot says:

    BarrieJohn
    My use of the ira was not the best choice of words and I apologize for it as I know this was a dark time in the history of the UK.
    Foe the rest though I could have maybe used better wording, but I still think they can all go back to where they came from if they don’ like the way of life we have in the civilized world. As an atheist I will knock all religions equally and all those who preach them.

  32. barriejohn says:

    Ex Patriot: Apology accepted, though I wasn’t asking for one! The problem with the “civilized world” is that we behave like uneducated ingenues where religion is concerned. Why does it still have such influence in society, and why is it still given so much “respect”? You’d think that we’d have all moved on a bit by now.

  33. barriejohn says:

    Brummie: I must say that I’m a bit perplexed as well, as some of their ideas could almost have come from secularists. This bit is, I think, very important:

    We are especially conscious that many of the practices that caused such outrage in some of the Birmingham schools recently – such as excluding lessons about sex education, avoiding the notion of evolution, and reinforcing a cultural identity to the exclusion of others – would not have been challenged had those schools been classed as faith schools.

    We are campaigning for inclusive education and against religious discrimination. Our goal is that all stated-funded schools, including faith schools are inclusive, tolerant and transparent.

    If all schools are forced to accept pupils regardless of their faith, and employ teachers without regard to their beliefs, then that would be a big step towards secularisation, though not the ideal that you and I would want to see. It would certainly severely restrict much of the indoctrination which we all know takes place in “faith schools”, academies and “free schools” at the moment, and might make some people think twice about funding such institutions.

  34. barriejohn says:

    Two new faith schools in Coventry:

    http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/new-faith-schools-open-coventry-7725225?

    “Coventry has always been a multi-ethnic multi-faith city yet for a long time there have only been faith schools with a Christian foundation.

    “This has been a long time coming. Hats off to everyone involved.”

    Bollocks!

  35. […] leading academic – Dr Ali Selim – has called on all Catholic schools in Ireland to allow their Muslim pupils to wear the hijab […]

  36. […] leading academic – Dr Ali Selim – has called on all Catholic schools in Ireland to allow their Muslim pupils to wear the […]