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Atheists winning over Muslims with seductive reasoning

Atheists winning over Muslims with seductive reasoning

Sheik Ahmad Al-Tayyeb, above, the Grand Imam of Egypt’s Sunni institute of learning, al-Azhar University, has warned that ‘simple and comprehensible explanations’ offered by atheists are proving seductive to young Muslims.

This, of course, is a Very Bad Thing.

Speaking on his nightly television programme, “al-Imam al-Tayyeb,” which is being broadcast during the “holy” month of Ramadan in Egypt, Al-Tayyeb, explained that atheists developed their opinions in the 18th century with some degree of politeness and respect toward those who believe in God.

But contemporary atheists, particularly after the events of September 11, have declared war against all religions, especially Islam.

He added that one of the major causes of the spread of irreligiosity and atheism in the Islamic world is that some Muslim youth do not have the support of firm thinking and belief and cannot assess what they hear, especially since those who spread atheism spread their ideas with simple and comprehensible explanations.

Experts in psychology and large financial institutions support these ideas and the danger of these institutions is that their ideas can be considered as the weapons of the West.

In another part of his speech, Al-Tayyeb said that some so-called international human rights organisations were trying to support Muslim apostates.

We think this phenomenon is an abuse of religious freedom … those who have not declared their apostasy from Islam are not considered threats to the Islamic community.

He added that some European countries have also opened the way for sexual freedoms which are hated by Muslims and make them feel uncomfortable.

In conclusion, he urged the Muslim community to take action to end the phenomenon of atheism and said that the only way to end irreligiosity and atheism is to disseminate correct religious knowledge in schools and universities and to have theological and philosophical courses in universities  to protect students from deviant thoughts.

53 responses to “Atheists winning over Muslims with seductive reasoning”

  1. L.Long says:

    Translation….The atheists are telling the truth that is making our lies look really stooopid!!! This must stop!!! So we need to increase the brainwashing of the youth!!!”

  2. Megamoya says:

    And here I thought that *correct* knowledge about religions would PROMOTE atheism and irreligiosity. Silly me.

  3. Paul says:

    The man epitomises the stupidity of religion:
    The way to counter logic, reason and tolerance is “to disseminate correct religious knowledge in schools and universities …….. to protect students from deviant thoughts.”
    What an arrogant intolerant fool.
    How is religion correct ? Islam is at this time conducting a civil war against its two factions sunni and shia in Syria and Iraq – So which one is the correct one?
    And why do students need protection against deviant thoughts? How is trying to understand a world or people without a ‘stone age’ thought process ‘deviant’

  4. AgentCormac says:

    So, the only way to stop people considering simple and comprehensible reasoning is to make sure they have illogical and incomprehensible reasoning drilled into them from an early an age as possible. It’s a tactic that’s worked well for the religiots of this world for the past couple of millennia, so why would they stop now?

  5. Rob Andrews says:

    The problem is the religions offer emotional support. That’s very much like drugs affecting the brain chemistry. No wonder why drug addics often become religious.

    I know people on this site understand this, but, sometimes we get lost in wondering why people don’t listen to ‘reason’. So this is why i post this statement a lot.

    ” An atheist is a person with no invisible means of support”.

    .

  6. barriejohn says:

    Using logic and reason, eh? Those cunning atheists will stoop to anything!

  7. sailor1031 says:

    If you are one of the religious establishment making a fat living off the gullible by using religion to control them – it’s all about power, position and money after all whether an imam or the dalai lama or the pope or the assembled synod of bishops of the church of scotland or some amish “bishop” in podunk PA.

    Clear thinking and atheism put their racket in danger and must be opposed even to the point of killing those who try to leave.

  8. Stephen Mynett says:

    Religionists always target those who appear to them to be the most vulnerable, as Rob Andrews pointed out drug addicts, it is a good point as they are sure they have an easy conversion with someone whose mental state is already round the pole. They go for children who are still not old enough to reason and believe what adults say and they love the disabled. While the majority of people in a free society now do not immediately associate physical disability with mental disorder, the religions still seem to and are always ready to “help” a passing cripple, at a cost of course and when the ailment/condition does not get better it is always the fault of the individual for not having enough faith.
    This idiot Imam is telling the truth without realising it by pointing out that religion cannot exist in a society of reasoned and logical thinkers.

  9. AgentCormac says:

    And why, exactly, does the patronising twat think muslim youths cannot assess what they hear? It’s the fact that they are perfectly capable of assessing what they hear (or more likely what they read on the internet) that’s scaring him and people like him to death. They know their number is just about up – that’s why they are constantly ramping up the threats, the intimidation and the imposition of belief by fear.

  10. Broga says:

    ” the only way to end irreligiosity and atheism is to disseminate correct religious knowledge in schools and universities ”

    I’m in favour of that. The fastest route to atheism is an objective reading of the bible. I assume the same could be said for the Quaran which I haven’t read.

  11. Trevor Blake says:

    ‘ … and that is why we are forced to kill you.’

    That’s what comes next.

  12. Smokey says:

    “We think this phenomenon is an abuse of religious freedom … those who have not declared their apostasy from Islam are not considered threats to the Islamic community.”

    What an amazing non-sequitur. Not to mention disturbing. My understanding of that is that 1) supporting apostates is abuse of (Islamic) religious freedom, and 2) apostates are a threat to Islam. Huh. I don’t disagree with that. One man’s bug is another’s feature.

    “… sexual freedoms which are hated by Muslims and make them feel uncomfortable.”

    Good. Let them be uncomfortable. But then, why are they then migrating to the West, which is arguably swimming in sexual freedoms? (Which doesn’t necessarily include the US.) Are they coming to experience those freedoms, or remove them?

  13. Club Secretary says:

    @broga

    “the Quaran which I haven’t read.”, and neither truly have about a billion devout muslims.

  14. Mike says:

    “But contemporary atheists, particularly after the events of September 11, have declared war against all religions, especially Islam.”

    Where do people pull this shit out of…..Oh right, their asses! I’m curious to know how this “war” is being conducted. A war of words and information? Oh boohoo, we wouldn’t want to be able to express our world views in public now would we? We’ve only been listening to religious dogma for the past 10,000+ years. How brazen of those nonbelievers!

  15. Ben Murphy says:

    Love your site all I can say is thank God i’m an atheist

  16. Gillette says:

    I don’t think too many christiots have read the bible either! Apart from the cherry pickings

  17. Tim Gluvna says:

    So humorous to me that freedom OF religion is a tenet that all humanity espouses. (or at least some). what about my freedom FROM religion? It is pounded into us from birth to death. Those of us who choose to be free from religion have to hear it every day. ad nausea. Our political campaigns are dripping with it. Our courts are infected with it. Our schools are being consumed with it.

  18. Kafir says:

    “We think this phenomenon is an abuse of religious freedom … those who have not declared their apostasy from Islam are not considered threats to the Islamic community.”

    So, in other words…
    “We think that this is happening because people are smart enough to figure out they have a choice about how to live their lives all by themselves without Islam, and that is NOT how we want things to go, and they are using their newfound religious freedom in a way we never wanted or intended…Those that choose to hide their true beliefs are not a threat because they, despite their apostasy and lack of belief, are still going along with whatever we say (but those with the courage to stand against us are our biggest threat and must be dealt with before their simple answers that make sense show us for the scam we are) and therefore aren’t really a problem worth our consideration.”

    Three things: 1) No sh!t. You’re absolutely correct. 2) Thanks for basically coming right out and saying it, confirming exactly what’s being said about Islam these days, that they are scared and on the way out, and 3) If those closeted apostates were to stand up for themselves, Islam (or any religion, really) would be a thing of the past, and there would be almost nothing that they could do to stop it, except more violence, which is nothing new and should be short lived.

  19. Sam says:

    Which is why I think religion is an ersatz behemoth that needs to be chipped away at all the time.
    The posts from various atheist groups are a big help, imo.

  20. Broga says:

    @Ben Murphy : You don’t know how much we need you. We have recently had a bollocking from someone who has now disappeared for being too frivolous and lacking “intellectual gravitas.” Welcome.

  21. Angela_K says:

    “….simple and comprehensible explanations…” that would be the very simple, no evidence, no criticism method favoured by the religious.

  22. Cali Ron says:

    Gillette: Many christian denominations actually don’t encourage reading the bible on your own, especially the RCC. They will read the parts they want you to hear and tell you what they mean. Don’t bother thinking for yourself, we’ll tell you what to think. Here, we are freethinkers and we decide what we believe based on our knowledge and observations, not dogma.

    Ben Murphy: Greetings from an ex evangelical, godless Californian.

  23. barriejohn says:

    Evangelical Christians will tell you how avidly they study their Bibles, but they always have to interpret it in a certain light. Cali Ron may know to what I refer when I mention “Bible Readings”. These are occasions, very popular with the Plymouth Brethren, where Christians gather together (sometimes in very large numbers) to study a portion of Scripture verse by verse, except that “leading Brethren” will sit at the front of the gathering – one usually leading the proceedings – and dominate the discussion. Despite the apparent openness and informality of the occasion, it’s woe betide anyone (and I have experienced this myself!) who has any “unorthodox” views on the passage being studied. Their private libraries also consist of the same books by the same authors, who all toe the party line laid down by John Nelson Darby and others at the start of the modern evangelical movement. I knew one young brother who was very gifted and very zealous, and took a job as a postman to give himself more time to study the scriptures, who had “contrary” views on matters of prophecy and was immediately blacklisted amongst Brethren assemblies. They are told how to interpret their Bibles, and no deviation from accepted doctrine is permitted!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Nelson_Darby

  24. XaurreauX says:

    Not all Muslims are against rational thought. Here’s a traditional Arab expression: “Trust in Allah, but tie up your camel.”

  25. barriejohn says:

    Broga: Agreed. Always good to hear new voices!

  26. Azad says:

    I don’t get the chance theory, that we are all here by chance and its random! i just need to see the possibilities/probability and the odds!
    can someone help me understand this theory?

    I believe the God Theory that Islam presents it’s more coherent! (One Creator-Beyond time/space)
    help me understand Atheism!

  27. Cali Ron says:

    barriejohn : We were encouraged to read specific verses which would be “discussed ” at bible study classes where elders or Sunday school teachers would tell us what they meant, which usually went well beyond what was actually written. There were frequent handouts and lesson guides to ensure we got the right message. The youth were also pushed to read the whole bible as some sort of rite of passage and a bragging right, but it was rote reading with little actual comprehension. Misinterpretation were quickly corrected. I still have my bibles, including a diaglot, some with notes in the margin from bible study classes. Until my rebellion I was a good little pupil being pushed to attend bible college and groomed for the ministry. Can I get an amen? NO!

  28. James Newell says:

    Now I know why they are called Islamic scholars. They are experts at explaining why Islam is one of the most deceptive beliefs.

  29. Lee Helms says:

    Tim Gluvna: The thing they don’t get is that their freedom OF religion is, necessarily, freedom FROM all of the OTHER religions! Atheists only want to be free from one more religion than the believers.

  30. Richard Wade says:

    Hi, big boy. Oooh you’re so handsome. How’d you like to compare epistemologies, hmmm? Come here and sit on the bed. You tell me your arguments, and I’ll show you my evidence. I’m sure you’ll reeeeealy like it. We’ll have a great time.

  31. barriejohn says:

    Cali Ron: Yes – Read the Bible in One Year!

    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_4yRk_7bQQoA/S9wprEGWGiI/AAAAAAAAAyg/vSMztvx1XT4/s1600/1YearChronological.bmp

    You wouldn’t know a great English writer and humourist (gay and an ex-schoolteacher, as well), the late Arthur Marshall of “Myrtlebank”, whose absence from our TV screens and radios is still keenly felt by some of us. I have several books of his essays, and in one he lists some of the bizarre gifts sent to members of the Royal Family by Joe Public on the occasion of anniversaries, etc. (why do they do it?). He particularly wonders what joy greeted the discovery – by the Queen Mum, I believe – of yet another copy of “Daily Light on the Daily Path”, especially as she had been sent several copies of this particular tome! Do you remember it? It is a book of daily Bible readings with a different theme for each day, and is very popular in this country, especially with those who like to be spoon-fed their faith. You could always tell the brethren who used it at home, as, at the Breaking of Bread meeting on a Sunday morning they were all reading the passages that had been featured on that particular day, to the great amusement of everyone else!

  32. Angela_K says:

    Azad, there is no evidence to support the god theory – and it isn’t even a theory in the scientific sense. Read the book “A Universe from Nothing” by Laurence Krauss, you should also read “The god delusion” by Richard Dawkins.

  33. AgentCormac says:

    @Azad
    You believe the Islamic ‘God Theory’ and consider it to be ‘coherent’. Why do you want us to explain atheism to you? Sounds like you’ve already made up your mind.

  34. barriejohn says:

    Azad: I can’t explain atheism to you, as it is merely the absence of belief in the supernatural, and the default human position without religious indoctrination, but I can certainly help you with those enormous odds that seem to make “chance” happenings so difficult to accept. The point is that when one thing happens in the development of the universe, or in the evolution of life, it makes subsequent events either much more likely or even almost certain. Creationists never take this into account, so take all the separate events and multiply up the probabilities of them happening purely by chance, thus arriving at mind-boggling numbers in the billions, trillions and zillions. This is dishonest and devious, but is what we have come to expect from those who have their own agenda to promote rather than seeking for the truth!

    Read more on this here:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conditional_probability

  35. John says:

    Paul,

    Let’s get our “ages” right:-

    Archaeological period articles – by Continent and Region

    Asia

    Near East

    Levantine

    Stone Age (2,000,000 – 3300 BCE)
    Bronze Age (3300 – 1200 BCE)
    Iron Age (1200 – 586 BCE)
    Historical periods (586 BCE – present)

    Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_archaeological_periods

    586 BCE was the occasion of the destruction of the First Temple in Jerusalem and the defeated Jews being marched off into captivity in Babylon, where Torah Judaism became replaced by Rabbinical Judaism. The Second Temple was again destroyed in 70 ACE.

    The Muslim claim is that Muhammad lived between c. 570 ACE – 8 June 632 ACE [source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad%5D – if any such person did actually exist.

    Tom Holland has somewhat undermined historical claims to his alleged existence in his works – see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam:_The_Untold_Story.

    What this Egyptian cleric’s whining indicates to me is something along similar lines to other clerics who promote judaic and christian brands of religion.

    Have we not heard various Archbishops of Canterbury saying similar things about the decline in demand for their “product” over the last few decades?

    Have not the Bishops of Rome been heard making similar complaints about the decline of their sheeple “flocks” and the accompanying rise of freethinking and secularism?

    I welcome Al-Tayyeb’s remarks, as they indicate to me a steady weakening in support for his brand of religion.

    Any weakening in support for any religion is surely to be welcomed?

  36. Rob Andrews says:

    @AZAD:

    There’s no explanation of ‘first cause’ or ‘why’. With or without god they leave more questions.
    1) why is there anything? Well why is there a god. Just include that in the anything.
    2) what created the universe? Well, what came before god. If you say “god always was”, that doesn’t explain creation. You only throw it back one time. The universe just was always there inone form or another-maybe more compact before the big bang.

    I see do demonstable evidence that prayer works or miracles happen. But that’s as far as i can go.

  37. Broga says:

    Azad: Suggesting the existence of God, far from answering any questions about existence, merely complicates. We are then left with the far more difficult problem of “Who created God?” and so on.

    The answer that God just is and doesn’t need to be created doesn’t help. How can that be known? Why not say the same thing about the cosmos?

    Humans think, as they must, in the very limited terms of our human, Earth evolved brains. Perhaps with our limitations we will never know all the answers. However, we keep trying and keep finding answers to questions about our existence. To offer up God as an answer is a cop out.

    Two other aspects make understanding difficult for us. One is the vastness of the cosmos which even light travelling at 186,000 miles a second takes millions of years to traverse. The other is to grasp a sense of what time over billions of years can be and what might happen during such aeons of time.

    We are a fragile, minute biological organism clinging temporarily to a speck of rock. We are an accident and not special.

  38. John says:

    At the St Albans Humanist meeting on Tuesday evening, I made a reference to the Arab Empire and questions over the historical veracity of Mohamed.

    If you go to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam:_The_Untold_Story, you can see information about the historian Tom Holland and the role of Channel 4.

    There is further information on his book on the same subject at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_the_Shadow_of_the_Sword_(book).

    If you would like to obtain a copy of the book, try asking Neal at Reason Coffee Shop & Bookstore, 116 The Parade, Watford.

    All religions are just state ideologies, created for the benefit of emerging military empires in order to give them some sort of authenticity beyond naked force.

    Judaism for the failed attempt to establish a Jewish Empire, succeeded by the adoption of christianism by the Roman Empire and succeeding western imperial powers, and the late creation of Islam to cloak the emerging Arab Empire with some degree of respectability and distinctive difference from the earlier imperial ideologies.

    The Nazi and USSR empires adopted aspects of religious-style ideologies to define themselves and their “new” Aryan/Soviet man identities.

    If another new empire emerges then – no doubt – it too will attempt to create its own unique ideology.

    All religions are boringly and predictably similar in terms of buttressing forms of imperial power.

    They always have been – right from the start.

    That is why freethinking is so crucial to free living.

  39. Stephen Mynett says:

    Azad, thanks for your post, unlike many religious people who troll here you have asked a question in a polite manner and I am glad others have responded in the way they have.
    I can only reiterate what others have said but it is worth your while checking as much evidence as possible. For those of any faith who have had in forced on them since childhood it is difficult to believe anything else but it is well worth the effort.
    It is worth repeating that a god, of any description, is actually more improbable than life and the universe just happening. Look at the history of Christianity and how scientists and mathematicians were persecuted by the church, often tortured and killed and then look at the many back tracks the church has made since scientists have been allowed to research and publish their evidence.
    When something happens, in science we ask why, in religion there is only one answer, ie god, whichever brand you use, did it.
    Atheism is not a theory, purely a statement, a disbelief in gods. However, if you are to be serious in your research you must listen to as much evidence as possible and be willing to accept the fact your religious leaders will lie to you. They may not deliberately lie, they may be so involved with their faith they cannot see outside of it but they will be giving you what they call facts but are without real evidence. You need also to consider that religion is a powerful tool for controlling the people, that is why so many governments kowtow to religions.
    I hope you will undertake this journey of discovery, you will find it rewarding.

  40. Brian Jordan says:

    @Azad
    Thanks for your question, which has been answered by, among others, Barriejohn and Broga. if you take the two together, you will see that the odds are nothing like as fantastic as creationist claims (they deliberately misunderstand the mechanism of evolution by natural selection) and given the age of the earth (denied by Christian Young Earth creationists) there has been plenty of time for evolution to take place.
    As far as I know, Islam has no problem at all with with an Earth billions of years old, and very little problem with evolution (there may be a little glitch where the human “soul” has to be added to the brew). There are Muslims who claim that evolution was conceived by a Muslim long before Darwin and it appears that the tendency for some Muslims to deny evolution is a recent one.

  41. Cali Ron says:

    Azad: All religions were created by men, of finite knowledge and existence. All God’s were created by men in their minds. There is no evidence or proof of such a being ever existing. All men are flawed and it is foolish to take any man’s word without proof.

  42. azad says:

    @Brian
    I am not denying evolution, I understand that its possible we can grow up! I am asking about the possibility this all is happening without an intelligent designer!
    that is my question!

  43. Broga says:

    @azad: The designer could not have been intelligent. The human body has been cobbled together of bits as we evolved. A few examples: the human spine, unlike that of a dog, is a disaster and causes endless problems and pains; our eyes initially reflect a distorted image which has to be corrected – we used to have a doctor friend who operated on eyes and he said the eye was a perfect example of unintelligent design; the system of getting our gullet and breathing to work has been cobbled together in an inefficient and convoluted way; we don’t know why we have an appendix which only causes problems.

    There is problem a web site or whatever somewhere that lists all the problems with the human body. The argument that refutes the claim that if you found a watch you would assume that it was made by a designer is too well known here for me to bore people with it.

  44. barriejohn says:

    Broga: Well said. Anyone with knee problems knows that no intelligent being designed the human body, and the latest wisdom is that knee surgery is useless!

    There are several sites that cover the things that you mention:

    http://io9.gizmodo.com/the-most-unfortunate-design-flaws-in-the-human-body-1518242787

  45. Broga says:

    @barriejohn: Thanks bj. I’m about to have a browse on the site you suggest.

  46. Broga says:

    @barriejohn: Thanks for the site which I have just read. I hope azad reads it as it gives the lie to intelligent design.

    Our brains are a constant source of worry and we consume mountains of pills trying to stave off anxiety, depression etc. We worry about death which plagues many people. My dog has none of these worries and he doesn’t give a toss about death. Also, unlike me, his ability to smell lets him enjoy our walk in the surrounding country with the kind of awareness I might get from a book.

  47. Joy says:

    Regarding the comments on intelligent design. Is it not true that the human body has a tail bone and the necessary muscles to wag it? Thats intelligent!!

    I have just discovered this site and am very impressed by the civility and “to the pointedness” of all the comments. Congrats to all.

    One more note to Azad. I reitterate that Atheism is not a goal and he should not pursue it. Just continue to inquire, to think for yourself, and you will get there in spite of yourself.

  48. Broga says:

    @Joy: Welcome Joy. Good to have your comments.

  49. Stephen Mynett says:

    Hi Joy, good to have you along. There are loads of examples of bits wrong with or not needed in all of us. Animals use the appendix to store bacteria that help with digestion, the only purpose it now serves for us is an unwanted rush to the local operating theatre to have it removed.