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Spanish nun sparks fury by claiming Mary was not a virgin

Spanish nun sparks fury by claiming Mary was not a virgin

Sister Lucia Caram, 51, popular in Spain for her TV cookery programmes and her outspoken political views, has upset the Catholic Church by claiming that Mary was no virgin.

The nun, who has 180,000 followers on Twitter, received a sharp rebuke after she said on a chat show at the weekend that she didn’t really believe in one of the tenets of the Roman Catholic faith – that Mary, mother of Jesus, was a virgin.

I think that Mary was in love with Joseph and that they were a normal couple, and the normal thing is to have sex.

Caram, who was born in Argentina before moving to a Catalan convent 26 years ago, told Risto Mejideon on Cuatro TV:

It’s hard to believe and to take in. We’ve stuck with rules that we have invented without reaching the true message.

Her comments brought a swift rebuttal from the Roman Catholic Diocese of Vic which issued a statement insisting that “in light of recent statements by a nun” it sought to remind those that the Catholic faith was clear on the subject of Mary’s virginity.

The belief that Mary was a perpetual virgin forms part of the faith of Church from its beginnings and that this truth of faith was collected and proclaimed by the Second Council of Constantinople, being the primary Marian dogma observed by Catholic and Orthodox Christians.

Sister Lucia, who lives in a convent in Manresa, also discussed her views on sex on the programme.

Sex is a way of expressing feelings and love and forms a part of all people. The Church has treated the subject as dirty and secret but I think it is a blessing.

When asked if she herself had sexual needs and what she did about them, she replied:

Just as I told you that I have never had sex and am a virgin, I can tell you that I do not masturbate either.

28 responses to “Spanish nun sparks fury by claiming Mary was not a virgin”

  1. CoastalMaineBird says:

    “Sex is a way of expressing feelings and love and forms a part of all people. “

    OK, fair enough. but then….

    ” I have never had sex and am a virgin, I can tell you that I do not masturbate either.”

    Well, maybe not ALL people…

    “I think it is a blessing.”
    Based on….. what?

  2. remigius says:

    The next headline will be…

    “Catholic Church Claims Sister Lucia Is Not A Virgin”.

  3. CoastalMaineBird says:

    Lucy! You got some ‘splainin’ to do ! ! !

  4. Matt says:

    Groan … who cares … no such person as mary ever existed anyway. She is just an invented figure. Invented and morphed over time into a wholly incredible persona standing as a cornerstone of catholic dogma.

    And Sister Lucia never had sex, is a virgin and does not masturbate either. Oh yeah … right. Like President Clinton never had sex with Monica Lewinsky (she sucked his dick) and never inhaled cannabis (he ate cannabis cookies). Sister Lucia has never had (penetrative) sex nor ever masturbated … but I am here to tell you that she enjoys the oral attentions of her sisters and maybe those of celibate priests.

    The rcc is riddled with lies and is totally obsessed with sex.

  5. Angela_K says:

    I read somewhere that the whole virgin nonsense is due to a mistranslation and numerous editing/re-writing of the Bible. I don’t suppose there is any more evidence for Mary of the Bible than there is for her son.
    “…Mary was a perpetual virgin…” so am I dear – well I’ve never had sex with a man.

  6. Rob Andrews says:

    Angela_Kay:

    Even if there was such a person in some small village, she would have had to claim that she was a virgin. Otherwise according to Mosaic law she could have been stoned to death for premarital sex.

    But you made a good point about the mistranslation from Greek to Latin. The word in Greek only means a ‘young girl’, not NECESSARILY chaste–but impling that.

    But the transators to Latin would of course assume being the mother of god that she was. And Christ also had brothers; I don’t know if they were older or not.

    “Missquoting Jesus: The Story of Who Wrote the Bible and Why”–Bart Ehrmen

  7. Daz says:

    As I understand it, the original Hebrew in Isaiah stated almah; young woman, which was mistranslated into Greek as parthenos; virgin.

    None of which matters a jot anyway to anyone with basic reading skills, ’cause the passage in Isaiah isn’t even about some far-future messiah. Christians just twisted the hell out of it in order to create a prophecy for Jesus’s birth to be in fulfilment of.

  8. StephenJP says:

    The error was all the fault of the Septuagint translators of the Torah who thought the Hebrew word “almah” (young woman) should be turned into the Greek “parthenos” (virgin).

    But the text itself, from Isaiah 7, is actually all about God telling the Israelites that the Assyrians are going to overthrow the northern kingdom (which they did, in 722 BCE). No connection whatever with fairy stories of three quarters of a millennium later. It is a textbook example of how Christian writers have quote-mined past scriptures without the slightest regard for context.

  9. remigius says:

    @Rob Andrew. “…Christ also had brothers”.

    This is another misunderstanding. Jesus was a member of the People’s Front of Judea. He and his comrades referred to each other as ‘Brother’**. It implies no familial relationship.

    **(and ‘Sister’ – sorry Loretta!)

  10. Daz says:

    Here ya go. The Isaiah/virgin/prophecy nonsense ably explained by Discern4: Part 1 of 3.

  11. remigius says:

    I seem to recall that Mary – known to Catholics as the Madonna – was only ‘like a virgin’. This would imply that she wasn’t an actual virgin… she just acted like one.

  12. barriejohn says:

    As Mary’s incandescent mother said: “She’s not a virgin, she’s a very naughty girl.”

  13. L.Long says:

    Supposedly jesus had at least a brother with hints at more so she may not have been a slut but she was no virgin!

  14. barriejohn says:

    The business about Isaiah “prophesying” that a young woman would have a son who would bring about the deliverance of the Jews we have discussed here before, but it was the writer of Matthew’s Gospel who applied this to his story about the birth if Jesus (Luke’s is quite different) and referred to “a virgin”. The translators then applied this term to the woman mentioned in Isaiah.

    “Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.” (Matt. 1:22-23 KJV)

    Jesus is never again called “Emmanuel”.

    BTW Why belong to an organization like the church if you’re not going to accept its tenets of belief?

  15. Broga says:

    If she has never had sex nor masturbated how does she know sex is a blessing? With ordinary human sexual drives sex must cause such frustration for her that it must be a curse.

  16. barriejohn says:

    According to the Gospels, Jesus had brothers and sisters, but the Catholic Church explains them away. However, they are obviously not “disciples”!

    “So His brothers said to Him, ‘Leave these parts and go into Judaea, that not only we but your disciples also may witness the miracles which you perform’.” (John 7:3 Weymouth)

    “Is not this the carpenter’s son? Is not his mother called Mary? And are not his brothers, James, Joseph, Simon and Judah? And his sisters – are they not all living here among us?” (Matthew 13:55-56 Weymouth)

    (Numerous other such references in the Gospels)

  17. remigius says:

    barriejohn. “Why belong to an organization like the church if you’re not going to accept its tenets of belief?”

    It’s obvious, she’s an imposter; a fifth columnist. Mark my words, in a few years she’ll be heard saying “These biscuits don’t taste like Jesus”. Eventually she’ll bring the whole edifice crashing down.

  18. AgentCormac says:

    I bet the RCC loved this nun and her oh-so-modern tweeting skills until she came out with the what she really thinks. Now she’ll be conveniently shipped off to live with a few hundred priestly paedophiles in some out-of-the-way retreat in the Alps where the media (and the police) can’t find them. Shame really as she sounds like someone with a brain. Anyway, I do hope she tries masturbating one day – you never know, she might, just like 99.9% of humanity, actually enjoy it.

  19. StephenJP says:

    @AgentCormac: as Woody Allen said: “Don’t knock masturbation; it’s sex with someone I love”.

  20. Broga says:

    @StephenJP : The prisoner visitor asked the long term prisoner how difficult he found life with no sex.

    “Not a problem, I masturbate and I prefer that as I meet a better class of woman that way,” said the prisoner.

  21. lonbo says:

    Christianity is based on a fable illustrating the failure of abstinence.

  22. Laura Roberts says:

    Given that she says a couple of reasonable things about the mythical “virgin” Mary, I’ll cut her slack on her claim to be a virgin herself. If she is, then I feel truly sorry for her because she’s right that sex is a wonderful thing. She shouldn’t miss out just because her organization has its had buried in the dark ages.

    Another Woody Allen quote: “Sex between two people is a beautiful thing. Between five, it’s fantastic.”

  23. Laura Roberts says:

    …and of course this story requires an appropriate song…

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MlFjqgTHpE

  24. Paul says:

    I think it’s a very good thing she said this. How incredible considering the brain washing she must have undergone to become a nun. That she doesn’t or didn’t have sex or is a virgin is, for the simplicity of the statements, irrelevant I think. True she has not experienced sex herself however is it not the courage of her statements that is a very good thing.
    One of the false pillars of the teaching of the RCc knocked into touch by a single simple woman is to be applauded.
    (And of course I would agree, like the silly celibate male priests giving all sorts of marital advice etc she isn’t an expert on sex, and never could be).

  25. Newspaniard says:

    The crowd decided that Brian’s Mum was a virgin. Just sayin’.

  26. barriejohn says:

    Laura: Brilliant. Strangely enough, that one was not part of the repertoire when I was organizing Christmas concerts, but I somehow feel that it should have been!

    How about this one:

    https://youtu.be/R41icNWltSo

  27. John says:

    One local diehard JC cultist – after I mentioned the biblical story of JC’s brothers and sister – claimed they were all half-brothers and half-sisters.
    He meant that JC had been “fathered” by “god” and “mothered” by “Mary”; all his siblings had been “fathered” by “Joseph” and “mothered” by “Mary”.
    Just goes to show the ridiculous extent to which these zealots will twist and turn logic on its head to maintain their dogmatic beliefs.
    My belief: they are all clinically insane. End of.

  28. Laura Roberts says:

    @barriejohn: love it!